Splash DamageBlogSneak Peek: RAD Soldiers Balancing Changes

Splash Damage Blog

Sneak Peek: RAD Soldiers Balancing Changes

We've been keeping a close eye on your balancing feedback over the past few weeks, and we've also been monitoring how people are playing the game - what soldiers see combat, which ones usually stay home, and which ones have a hard time getting recruited in the first place.

We've put together a whole stack of balance changes to address a lot of what we have (or haven't) seen since the game launched. We’re now play-testing these and will roll them out in the next update.

While these tweaks are still subject to change, we wanted to give you an early look at what we've got in mind so that you can see what's coming and give us some early feedback.
General

  • Damage over Time attacks no longer stack - only the most recent DoT effect is applied
  • Reduced Energy cost of all melee attacks by 1
  • Reduced duration of Ghost ability to 2 turns

Captain Abilities

  • Less-Harma Pharma now reduces damage by 50% for 2 turns
  • Team Spirit ability now replenishes 50% of a unit's AP points
  • Reduced Artillery from 5 to 3 uses
  • Reduced duration of Bee Bomb to 5 turns
  • Increased tick damage of Bee Bomb to 15

Archie Fletcher

  • Reduced Energy required to fire Explosive Crossbow to 5

Gus Marx

  • Reduced number of uses of the Sqhurter to 3

Juan DaCova

  • Reduced splash damage of Molotov to 2 tiles

Megan McNick

  • Increased throw range of mines to 2

Specialist Suds

  • Significantly increased C4's damage
  • Significantly increased C4's splash damage
  • Soldiers can now attack and destroy detected C4 charges

Textbook Kate

  • Reduced splash damage of Gas Grenade to 2 tiles
  • Increased Energy cost of Gas Grenade to 4

What do you think? Is there anything grossly unbalanced missing from this list that must be remedied?

We look forward to your feedback!

116 Comments

That ghost two turn is music to my ears!!!or eyes for that matter lol
Posted on 8 February, 2013 - 17:45
Also the cost of her gas grenade was fine to but the two tile splash is cool
Posted on 8 February, 2013 - 17:53
These are some pretty good balance changes. Team Spirit is a pretty surprising one, and the new melee buff might put a hamper on snipers, which is also good. I think the energy cost tweak for the toxbomb was made a little irrelevant by the radius decrease, but it shouldn't matter, I don't think. As for things I think are missing, is there any news on Angela Merci, or any rumblings about Sniper Rifles in general?
Posted on 8 February, 2013 - 18:48
Maybe Carlito's rocket turret should get a (small) buff? It never seems to be used effectively (happy to be corrected). Also, I would have thought a rocket would have a really long (straight line) range if nothing is in the way? Just thinking about making spud a bit better. The rest of the changes seem good (although I hate to see Kate get nerfed - I kind of liked using her as an assault troop to get things moving - guess i'll switch to dave). My one concern is if I were a snipe + camp player, i'd be pleased with a lot of the announced changes.
Posted on 8 February, 2013 - 19:44
I would think that the melee changes would have you worried if you like to sit back and wait :D
Posted on 8 February, 2013 - 20:12
Such exciting news. The balancing seems very fair. Contrary to some, I like Suds C4. Now that he has 3, he is a very powerful recruit. "increased Energy cost of deploying C4 to 2"...isn't it currently 2 to deploy?
Posted on 8 February, 2013 - 20:33
Wow, I think the devs really listened to a lot to what people were suggesting and these changes will have us all rethink combinations. The juan-kate got a lot less effective, instead we might be talking about the suds-mcnick soon... Also looking forward to using melee more often. Only thing missing in my opinion, like penfold said, rocket turret range increase and/or not affected by cover. I remember how excited I was after buying Carlito, only to see the turret getting taken out before doing damage over and over again :wink:
Posted on 8 February, 2013 - 20:59
I like a lot of these changes. I also agree that Carlito needs something... I remember buying him thinking how awesome he will be and then having my turret die every time within my first turn since it only had 100 health... I think I've used him the least out of all the units.
Posted on 8 February, 2013 - 21:34
I support these changes. Good looking out.
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 00:07
These are all fantastic. I don't disagree with a single one of them and voiced several of them myself over the past month. This will bring a totally new dynamic to game play and change a lot of strategies. Can't wait :)
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 00:44
Opposed to many, I like DoTs to stack. They get used on me frequently, and I believe its all about the strategy in which they are used.. Regrettably, the Jaun buffer is fair, but I still liked it haha. But we can only see.
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 00:44
These changes... I LOVE THEM ALL!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!! Especially Megan's mines being able to be tossed now. I suggested this a while back and I'm happy you guys actually implemented it!!! That and the Melee points reduction!! Thank you for hearing us out!
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 02:14
Opposed to many, I like DoTs to stack. They get used on me frequently, and I believe its all about the strategy in which they are used.. Regrettably, the Jaun buffer is fair, but I still liked it haha. But we can only see.
Sounds like you didnt want change just add more stuff lol
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 03:14
Aw. Gus Marx water push ability is just fine. Why tweak it a little. :(
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 03:49
Aw. Gus Marx water push ability is just fine. Why tweak it a little. :(
Cuz Juan is getting tired of being pushed around.
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 03:57
General Damage over Time attacks no longer stack - only the most recent DoT effect is applied (fair enough, stacking DoT damage from juan kate combo is powerful, the reason y many players are using this set up) Reduced Energy cost of all melee attacks by 1 (It wasnt the energy cost problem, it was the SP that was off. Melee dealt a good dmg/energy ratio but to rate it only less useful in a battle with one less SP is inhibiting its use. Reducing ALL weapons and not the selected few that needs tweaking will only see much more dagger usage with a dmg/energy of 18.5) Reduced duration of Ghost ability to 2 turns (there really wasn't an issue with the ghost ability why change it? Cause some people play an all Agent setup???) Captain Abilities Less-Harma Pharma now reduces damage by 50% for 2 turns (25% for 5 turns was lousy, 50% sounds good but for 2 TURNS? Still lousy.) Team Spirit ability now replenishes 50% of a unit's AP points (No comment, all is well) Reduced duration of Bee Bomb to 5 turns Increased tick damage of Bee Bomb to 15 (now that's more like it with 15 dmg. The current 10 dmg, it was more like a toon stepped on some plastic caltrops) Archie Fletcher Reduced Energy required to fire Explosive Crossbow to 5 (maybe you could add a little more dmg to the splash damage. The splash seems quite minor more like a trickle) Gus Marx Reduced number of uses of the Sqhurter to 3 (awww man, really? I guess we can still improvise) Juan DaCova Reduced splash damage of Molotov to 2 tiles (no comment, since kate's toxic is gonna be changed to the same) Megan McNick Increased throw range of mines to 2 (looking forward to it!!) Specialist Suds Increased amount of C4 to 3 (whoa! really? its gonna be a blast!!) Increased Energy cost of deploying C4 to 2 (uhhh, its already 2 energy cost. Please dont tell me u meant 3...) Can now attack and destroy C4 charges once detected (just like mines, cool) Textbook Kate Reduced splash damage of Gas Grenade to 2 tiles Increased Energy cost of Gas Grenade to 4 (it will still be useful all the same so yeah do what you like) REAFFIRMING points and attention needed: Carlito's rocket needs some buffing up Angela Merci heal or poison effect order Double mine no dmg bug (refer mine bug post) Mine and rocket (refer no dmg to missile turret and mine post) Return dmg and backlash aura (last post of make the exp of non-commanders mean something post) No pressure devs, its a long list take your time. :P Keep up the good work.
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 04:35
General Damage over Time attacks no longer stack - only the most recent DoT effect is applied (fair enough, stacking DoT damage from juan kate combo is powerful, the reason y many players are using this set up)
Really? I used it because Kate is really good and Juan can just erase a Light, which is currently something no other lone soldier is capable of and why I think Snipers need some tooling around in.
Reduced Energy cost of all melee attacks by 1(It wasnt the energy cost problem, it was the SP that was off. Melee dealt a good dmg/energy ratio but to rate it only less useful in a battle with one less SP is inhibiting its use. Reducing ALL weapons and not the selected few that needs tweaking will only see much more dagger usage with a dmg/energy of 18.5)
The lowest amount of Squad Points is 4 for a very good reason, and that reason is making 14-point games playable to newer players. Energy cost was the problem.
Captain Abilities Less-Harma Pharma now reduces damage by 50% for 2 turns (25% for 5 turns was lousy, 50% sounds good but for 2 TURNS? Still lousy.)
Actually this ability was very good against sniper rifles, and now it's looking to just be an even better ability in general.
Team Spirit ability now replenishes 50% of a unit's AP points (No comment, all is well)
The implications of this are actually pretty major, and I'm expecting to see some clever usage of this ability now.
Archie Fletcher Reduced Energy required to fire Explosive Crossbow to 5 (maybe you could add a little more dmg to the splash damage. The splash seems quite minor more like a trickle)
The splash is fine as it is, considering you can do 60 damage to a target and completely ignore whatever cover they're using, 120 if you're in a good position.
Gus Marx Reduced number of uses of the Sqhurter to 3 (awww man, really? I guess we can still improvise)
Trust me, four uses was excessive. Three is plenty.
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 05:21
Cuz Juan is getting tired of being pushed around.
Ok. Point taken. But as you can see, the sqhurter or water pushing ability works just fine. I have seen no overpower power to it since there are pros and con if you used it. 1. If you used it to your units, yes they will be moved to the desired location but the trade off is that they will incur damage by the pushing ability. 2. If you pushed your enemy, you may move him out of his cover or push him away or draw him near or if you used it in the wrong way, you may have give him extra cells or range for his weapon to his advantage. Sqhurter is it over used? Yes. Overpowered? In my humble opinion, no. Definitely not. :) I still wish his water ability will stay. But if not, I'm still cool with the changes. :) Btw, it's about time you have tweak the Kate's gas grenade, hehe. Thnx for hearing us out. :) Dots not stacking, hell yeah! Juan/Kate combo will not be your usual enemies from now on. Suds c4. Gives me a smile, when I read this change. :) he will see a lot of games from then on. :) then again thank you Rad for listening and keep it up! :)
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 05:29
Since this is a sneak peak,. Hmm. Are there any new soldiers or toons that will be added? And if there are, can you please gives us an idea on what kind of type, ability,etc etc. they possess? Please? :) I can't wait any longer,. lol. :) thank you.
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 05:42
I really think juan and kate are being nerfed too much. especially when u set Dot not to stack. I think Dot stacking was fine and in reality u can get poisoned and burn at the same time.
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 06:18
Ok. Point taken. But as you can see, the sqhurter or water pushing ability works just fine. I have seen no overpower power to it since there are pros and con if you used it. 1. If you used it to your units, yes they will be moved to the desired location but the trade off is that they will incur damage by the pushing ability. 2. If you pushed your enemy, you may move him out of his cover or push him away or draw him near or if you used it in the wrong way, you may have give him extra cells or range for his weapon to his advantage.
The ability is fine, yes, but the fact that there is a unit who can deal 210 damage/18AP when they don't move, and have an ability that can scoot them two squares for what is really a piddling amount of damage in comparison (if it is even used to move them and not the intended target) is where I see a lot of the grumbling about the ability coming from. Gus turns Juan into a medium-heavy hybrid class, and in turn Juan turns Gus's water cannon into a zero-con decision to slightly damage your tank sniper to erase one of your opponent's soldiers.
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 07:16
Really? I used it because Kate is really good and Juan can just erase a Light, which is currently something no other lone soldier is capable of and why I think Snipers need some tooling around in. The lowest amount of Squad Points is 4 for a very good reason, and that reason is making 14-point games playable to newer players. Energy cost was the problem. Actually this ability was very good against sniper rifles, and now it's looking to just be an even better ability in general. The implications of this are actually pretty major, and I'm expecting to see some clever usage of this ability now. The splash is fine as it is, considering you can do 60 damage to a target and completely ignore whatever cover they're using, 120 if you're in a good position. Trust me, four uses was excessive. Three is plenty.
Actually what are AP points again? There's Energy points, squad points, health points... not sure what AP stands for.
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 07:42
The lowest amount of Squad Points is 4 for a very good reason, and that reason is making 14-point games playable to newer players. Energy cost was the problem. The splash is fine as it is, considering you can do 60 damage to a target and completely ignore whatever cover they're using, 120 if you're in a good position. .
Changing SP pt of melee weapons only to less is a disadvantage in 14pt games to new player? Hows that so... The 60 dmg frm arrow is the primary damage, i meant the square BESIDE the primary target with dmg around 15-18 which is the splash dmg.
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 08:13
I do not think the squirter needs to be reduced but we will see how it plays out I am very disappointed about this balancing-list ignoring the turrets/sentries, they are a fun element but no experienced player uses them without a tweak/buff this will not change :( maybe turrets need to be moveable several squares by the engineer if not used for a round or have a bigger range and less health, I am not too sure what needs to be done, but something has to be done :) the rest sounds very reasonable
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 09:05
Changing SP pt of melee weapons only to less is a disadvantage in 14pt games to new player? Hows that so... The 60 dmg frm arrow is the primary damage, i meant the square BESIDE the primary target with dmg around 15-18 which is the splash dmg.
I know what you were referring to. Which melee weapons did you think need a lowering, in particular?
I do not think the squirter needs to be reduced but we will see how it plays out I am very disappointed about this balancing-list ignoring the turrets/sentries, they are a fun element but no experienced player uses them without a tweak/buff this will not change :( maybe turrets need to be moveable several squares by the engineer if not used for a round or have a bigger range and less health, I am not too sure what needs to be done, but something has to be done :) the rest sounds very reasonable
Well, it is a sneak peek - there's hope yet, I'm pretty optimistic that they've at least considered tooling around with turrets.
Actually what are AP points again? There's Energy points, squad points, health points... not sure what AP stands for.
Oh, AP is just what I call Energy units. It's an abbreviation of Action Points, for whatever reason I just kind of default to AP even when the word Energy is right in front of me.
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 09:11
Good stuff! Several things I've been hoping for, nothing I wouldn't more than quibble about. I was pretty happy with melee weapons as they were - I like the idea that a sword is significantly less useful than an assault rifle - but the game is supposed to be less of a simulation and more of a hoot, so that's OK. :) Turrets: I think they're pretty well on par with the other special abilities, so I'm not at all sold on boosting them. OTOH, the biggest dissatisfaction seems to be with how quickly they can be eliminated. (Cuz if you park a toon in one spot he's, like, invulnerable, right? :p ) Increasing their durability while nerfing them in some other way might give them a needed fun-increase without an unnecessary power-boost. A couple of other ideas for making them more fun. Gatling turret: Allow it to auto-fire on multiple targets in a turn. Mostly... I just think auto-fire is cool. Rocket turret: Give it a damaging "backwash" at radius 1, and 2 squares opposite the direction fired. Make it a little more interesting and harder to maintain (Dangerous for engineer to park beside it.) So increase the range and/or damage. Hey, how about a mortar? It could have a long range, a small AoE and a minimum range, but otherwise ignore LOS restrictions.
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 13:23
I really think juan and kate are being nerfed too much. especially when u set Dot not to stack. I think Dot stacking was fine and in reality u can get poisoned and burn at the same time.
I Agree with this. I think DoT stacking should be left the same... since you are using your energy and you won't be able to use the grenade or molotov again... You are limiting when you can use them in a game which is like a handicap compared to other units that can use their abilities whenever they want... I think reducing the area of dmg and making kates gas cost more energy is a good change to see how that will affect the juan + Kate combo. Players won't be able to target the same unit as easily since the splash dmg isn't as big.
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 13:49
Another thought that just came to my mind is that if DoT's don't stack... this will make Angela very powerful. She basically nullifies all DoT's the opponent has with her automatic healing...
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 14:06
Agree with Penfold_UK on the rockets issues: Carlito's Rocket Needs Buffing!!! Reduce Spud's Rocket cost or add in an extra rocket? XD
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 14:58
Really? I used it because Kate is really good and Juan can just erase a Light, which is currently something no other lone soldier is capable of and why I think Snipers need some tooling around in. The lowest amount of Squad Points is 4 for a very good reason, and that reason is making 14-point games playable to newer players. Energy cost was the problem. Actually this ability was very good against sniper rifles, and now it's looking to just be an even better ability in general. The implications of this are actually pretty major, and I'm expecting to see some clever usage of this ability now. The splash is fine as it is, considering you can do 60 damage to a target and completely ignore whatever cover they're using, 120 if you're in a good position. Trust me, four uses was excessive. Three is plenty.
I agree with everything but kate the only thing i wanted changed was one or the other as in either make it cost 4 energy(toxi bomb) or make it a two tile radius
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 15:06
I have a solution for ALL TURRENTS! Make them movable by guss problem solved. For those who might disagree its better to be usable than worthless, same for the meelee id rather something be overpowered than non usable, that means its in the game for nothing.
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 15:15
I have a solution for ALL TURRENTS! Make them movable by guss problem solved. For those who might disagree its better to be usable than worthless, same for the meelee id rather something be overpowered than non usable, that means its in the game for nothing.
This would be assuming EVERYONE has a Gus, and if turrets are moveable by water cannon it would be moveable by other push back abilities and attacks. I don't think that would be practical at all in trying to boost up turret usefulness.
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 15:40
This would be assuming EVERYONE has a Gus, and if turrets are moveable by water cannon it would be moveable by other push back abilities and attacks. I don't think that would be practical at all in trying to boost up turret usefulness.
Neer thought about it being pushed by other things too good point. Gotta start thinking things through
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 15:46
Maybe what's best that could be done to turrets is to allow gattling turret to attack MULTIPLE times in defense mode but only ONCE to each enemy toon. as for the rocket turret, maybe it should be increased to 150 hp.
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 16:02
What if the Turret could shoot over objects or walls? more like artillery. But obviously in a way that doesn't make it overpowered. Maybe limited range and reduced damage the farther it shoots?
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 16:19
Just up each turrents hp gattlin to 225 and rocket to 160
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 16:26
Considering the splash and AP cost penalties for Juan and Kate, the simultaneous DoT penalty is much too harsh of a nerf.
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 16:48
I really like almost all of these changes. A few comments though: Stacking DoT's requires a bit of strategy and manoeuvring to pull off, especially given that Kate is a hare and Juan is a tortoise. I think reducing the splash radius is a great change but I think they should still stack. It's a fair reward for getting them both on target at the same time. Reducing the cloak duration to two turns makes sense but it will make it more of a "get out of jail free card" rather than the ultimate flanking tool. I'm not sure exactly how I feel about this yet - I'll wait until we can test it out. Great changes to Suds, Archie and Megan. There was no real reason to use them IMHO (especially Megan). I can see me trying all of them out if these updates go live. I would also like to echo the comments about Carlito. He needs a bit of love. His rocket launcher could be made a bit tougher (maybe 150 health like Taschman's?) or perhaps be given an extra tile of range? It needs something. Looking forward to this update!
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 18:11
I wanna hear tinkers opinion he always breaks down everything and puts a good insight on things
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 18:21
Also, another option is adjusting coin/radbuck pricing for each toon.
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 19:55
I know what you were referring to. Which melee weapons did you think need a lowering, in particular? Well, it is a sneak peek - there's hope yet, I'm pretty optimistic that they've at least considered tooling around with turrets. Oh, AP is just what I call Energy units. It's an abbreviation of Action Points, for whatever reason I just kind of default to AP even when the word Energy is right in front of me.
Oh okay. Wow that would make team spirit pretty good. Maybe Juan can fire up to 4 times now hahaha.
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 21:55
Think range and cost of grenades is fine as it is and especially if you at the same time remove the stacking ( bee bomb aswell?) The range of Ivan's grenade is 2 tiles as you want these nerfed to, and I find it pretty crap unless ppl stack up fully (which you won't if against anything if you have half a brain unless you are forced. And by then its pretty much over anyway) Hurray for ghost nerf and increased usability of teamspirit and bee bomb ( if it doesn't stack with grenades it's pretty much status quo imo) Miss boosts for turrets. They really need some HP or alternatively they could count as always in cover.
Posted on 9 February, 2013 - 21:59
I had a busy week and just come back to see the sneak peak. Very interesting and waiting for the update. I'm basically fine with most of the part, but followings are my comments. - Just reducing energy cost of all melee attacks by 1 would not work. I mean, that will make all melee weapons with squad point of 5 completely useless: Katana, Seville Slugga and Persuader are all less powerful compared to the knife (in damage/energy). I think reducing energy cost of melee weapons is good, but it will require more fine tuning. - Buff on C4 is good (I'm happy with buff on Megan's mine, but I'm already feeling she is powerful enough). However, C4 and mines are quite difficult to detect. Even they can be destroyed, it is hard to detect without detecto-sweep and nobody use detecto-sweep in 14 pts match. I would say again that Detection aura should have more range (4 sqs), otherwise C4 and mines are basically undetectable. I'm pretty much sure that C4 and mines are still quite useful and many people will consider to bring detecto-sweep even Detection aura has 4 sq range. - Changes of commander abilities sound very interesting. I would like to see another 1 point ability, though. - Any buff for Pete's headshot? - Any buff for Turrets? more health or increase the number of auto fire?
Posted on 11 February, 2013 - 03:51
Great changes, looking forward to see more use of melee weapons! What about 7sp weapons like the hsr and hmg? they should be 6 sp to see more use out of them, both have their drawbacks; 8ap for hsr and shorter range for hmg.. Nobody uses those two right now since you really end up with 1 toon less per match.. I'd think if those two were 6ap they would be used more often. As with melee right now, which are rarely used, make the game more balanced and include changes to 7sp weapons to see more variety of weapons in the game!
Posted on 11 February, 2013 - 05:04
Oh and how possible would it be to have higher rank level then 40?
Posted on 11 February, 2013 - 05:06
Great changes, looking forward to see more use of melee weapons! What about 7sp weapons like the hsr and hmg? they should be 6 sp to see more use out of them, both have their drawbacks; 8ap for hsr and shorter range for hmg.. Nobody uses those two right now since you really end up with 1 toon less per match.. I'd think if those two were 6ap they would be used more often.
I have to say that I dont agree, I uses HMG all the time and my experience is that its extremely powerful. I had big problems using it in the beginning but now I say that it rocks, big time. I see it that if its gets lowered in points you will have the same problem as with Juan (Ivan gets to powerful..).
Posted on 11 February, 2013 - 07:25
I would suggest implementing either the no dot stacking change OR the reduction in Juan/Kate's AoE and Kate's use-cost. I think everyone agrees that combo needs a nerf but you don't necessarily want to remove it from play entirely.
Posted on 11 February, 2013 - 12:49
- Just reducing energy cost of all melee attacks by 1 would not work. I mean, that will make all melee weapons with squad point of 5 completely useless: Katana, Seville Slugga and Persuader are all less powerful compared to the knife (in damage/energy). I think reducing energy cost of melee weapons is good, but it will require more fine tuning.
A 3 energy Katana would actually work pretty well for Lights, and be about on-par with the Knife. The others have knockback, which I think is good for utility, and I don't necessarily mind them being less combat-effective for it. Maybe we'll see some damage tweaks to the weapons as well?
Posted on 11 February, 2013 - 22:49
A 3 energy Katana would actually work pretty well for Lights, and be about on-par with the Knife. The others have knockback, which I think is good for utility, and I don't necessarily mind them being less combat-effective for it. Maybe we'll see some damage tweaks to the weapons as well?
As knife requires less squad point, I would definitely like to see some damage tweaks. At least Katana should be more effective than knife. Reducing 1 energy cost for knife brings it back to the old time and I think that is too much for 4 SP weapon.
Posted on 12 February, 2013 - 02:29
I agree with EL-CO's point, reducing knarly would be too much. The changes should be done to the medium and heavy class melee weapons. 5SP pts and above weapons.
Posted on 12 February, 2013 - 03:06
We cant make the katana 3.5 people. The katana is very difficult to use at 4 energy you cant say it isnt otherwise you would be using it and ive played alot of people in here and only 1 person out of these forums have used a melee on me. Te pistol and and sub machine guns are the same squad points but the smg is better but the reson for that is only certain types of soldiers can use it. I think they should make the katana 3 energy but only available to certain soldiers and let the narley knife be like the pistol, available to everyone. For the big melee weapons just knock them down a notch also
Posted on 12 February, 2013 - 03:19
I think we should all keep in mind that this is just a sneak peak, so it is probably not the whole change list.
Posted on 12 February, 2013 - 08:33
Thanks everyone for your feedback so far! The knife is the one melee weapon that's not being affected by the lower energy requirements, since there are further balancing knock-ons as many of you have pointed out.
Posted on 12 February, 2013 - 10:05
Another quickie update: We've had to adjust the C4 changes we had originally planned. C4 will now do significantly more damage to its primary target, as well as much increased splash damage to the targets around the impact tile. Should make things rather interesting for Suds fans. :D
Posted on 12 February, 2013 - 13:05
Damn, now your talking. Hehe. It seems Suds market price would likely increase due to its new improvements. xD
Posted on 12 February, 2013 - 15:31
3 c4 and more damage. Sweeeeeeet! Can't wait for the next update. xD
Posted on 12 February, 2013 - 15:36
(To clarify, the amount of C4 he carriers will be unchanged at 1.)
Posted on 12 February, 2013 - 15:56
(To clarify, the amount of C4 he carriers will be unchanged at 1.)
Confusing, in your original post it seemed that suds was now carrying 3 charges. Well I still enjoy using him anyhow.
Posted on 12 February, 2013 - 18:48
(To clarify, the amount of C4 he carriers will be unchanged at 1.)
Also, not a fan of being able to shoot at the C4. I think having only an engineer being able to remove it is much cooler
Posted on 12 February, 2013 - 18:54
Confusing, in your original post it seemed that suds was now carrying 3 charges. Well I still enjoy using him anyhow.
That was the original intent but it's not possible at the moment. The original post was edited to reflect this. Sorry about the confusion there.
Also, not a fan of being able to shoot at the C4. I think having only an engineer being able to remove it is much cooler
This is merely to make it consistent with how mines work. We may revisit this for a future update, based on feedback from all of you once the update's out.
Posted on 12 February, 2013 - 19:35
Really nice to hear all "fine tuning" thats going on! Keep up the good work!!
Posted on 12 February, 2013 - 20:08
Nice... expecting some expansions too!! :D
Posted on 12 February, 2013 - 23:09
I was going to argue against Kate's reduction, I use her a lot, but her grenade was over powered. Guess I won't be winning matches with just a single toss anymore. Those are all good suggestions, but I disagree with the limit of the ghost powerup.
Posted on 12 February, 2013 - 23:27
(To clarify, the amount of C4 he carriers will be unchanged at 1.)
I rather we have 3 charge at the current damage. Unlike mines which opponent only have to walk across a specified square, the opponent have to be at a specific point or one square radius. That is why increasing it to three times would help cover a little more area. Also note that it has a rather short toss range of 4 and Suds isnt a mobile toon, even Spud Grunt has a better RPG range of 5 which is already short. However if its reduced to one time use i guess if the primary and splash damage is indeed increased SIGNiFiCaNTLY it could work. 100 damage C4!!!
Posted on 13 February, 2013 - 02:02
I have to say that I dont agree, I uses HMG all the time and my experience is that its extremely powerful. I had big problems using it in the beginning but now I say that it rocks, big time. I see it that if its gets lowered in points you will have the same problem as with Juan (Ivan gets to powerful..).
Then you must be a prodigy because as soon as I see hmg on the other squadI know I got this game in the bank. Yes it's powerful but up close.. but if you're getting up close you might as well bring the jack shotgun at 6 sp. Whats you're line up in 20 pt game if you're rocking hmg?? that's your power hitter at 7 sp, capt at 4 or 5 puts you at 11 or 12.. Now what? a decent weapon at 6 for 18 squad, annother hmg or two toons with pistol/knife at 4 each for 20? So you got hmg, capt with hooah and some other decent weapon for a 3 toon squad or; hmg, capt with hooah and 2 toons with pistol/knife for a 20 pt squad.. I can bring 4 toons with hooah for 20 pts or 2x6sp and 2x4sp weapon squad. I'll take jack over your hmg anytime if you want to get up close or 2x lmg and i got you on range and less cost to use.. All day HMG and HSR both suck as it is because of shorter range/and 8 ap. Noobs get those weapons because they see high damage but after getting destroyed those weapons are never used again. I never see those weapons used by players with higher ranks! I just want more variety and use out of weapons and toons. Great example is Suds.. why bother for 1 c4 which you really have to get lucky with for any use. Might as well get another dave or archie.
Posted on 13 February, 2013 - 05:48
Then you must be a prodigy because as soon as I see hmg on the other squadI know I got this game in the bank. Yes it's powerful but up close.. but if you're getting up close you might as well bring the jack shotgun at 6 sp.
I only use HMG at 26p game, It makes 64 damage in range 5 and 100+ in range 1. And I can fire 3 rounds. With the stun-grenade, some pills and a Dave with LMG I hardly need more gunpower. Some time I mix it up with a Orbital Strike. It hurts, I tell you. Of course its harder to use on some maps, and on some maps I never use it (or havent dared to use it..). But to make it cheaper in AP I think is really bad for the balance, in my i opinion.
Posted on 13 February, 2013 - 07:16
Whats you're line up in 20 pt game if you're rocking hmg?? that's your power hitter at 7 sp, capt at 4 or 5 puts you at 11 or 12.. Now what? a decent weapon at 6 for 18 squad, annother hmg or two toons with pistol/knife at 4 each for 20? So you got hmg, capt with hooah and some other decent weapon for a 3 toon squad or; hmg, capt with hooah and 2 toons with pistol/knife for a 20 pt squad.. I just want more variety and use out of weapons and toons. Great example is Suds.. why bother for 1 c4 which you really have to get lucky with for any use. Might as well get another dave or archie.
I actually do like to use the hmg and you dont have to change for all guns/knifes if you do. In your 20 point example: 5 commander, 7 ivan, 4 kate and 4 gus (both with uzi). That way i can splash-move my ivan in close and deal massive amounts of damage. Plus enough firepower and healing to support him. For a 26-point squad add a sniper. It doesnt always work but if it does it's so much fun having Ivan shooting three times. Totally agree on Suds though, he needed the three C4's, right now the C4 is just way too difficult to put in a good place. No reason to use him instead of any other infantry.
Posted on 13 February, 2013 - 07:32
HMG and HSR both suck as it is because of shorter range/and 8 ap. Noobs get those weapons because they see high damage but after getting destroyed those weapons are never used again. I never see those weapons used by players with higher ranks!
HMG and HSR are little like trophy weapons. But they are not completely useless. What advantage they have is in SITUATIONAL LEATHALITY, intimitation and awesomeness. That is why using them can be Very VERy tricky. I have to admit that I never did understd y a higher SP class weapon like HMG has shorter range than the Biffilo yet dealing the same damage at max range, but the HSR with its knock back is leathal. In fact if you wanna to compare the current 7SP weapons, the chain saw sucks the most. There is no special animation, it's damage a little lower than the sledge hammer, no knock back and has higher SP.
Posted on 13 February, 2013 - 08:02
(To clarify, the amount of C4 he carriers will be unchanged at 1.)
... Would prefer if c4 can be used more often rather than an increase in damage... Just like megan's mines... XD
Posted on 13 February, 2013 - 11:58
... Would prefer if c4 can be used more often rather than an increase in damage... Just like megan's mines... XD
We would too, but it's not something that can be done in time for the next update because of the way the ability works in the code.
Posted on 13 February, 2013 - 14:02
Hi! Love the game. I go back to Computer Ambush and Robosport on the early apples "in turns" of of loving these games. I'm late to these forums, but I like to learn the hard way. Here, free form, are some balance thoughts: 1) Juan shouldn't come with a club, he's a sniper 2) I love the woozy smg, but hate the handguns, even though the damage is similar. Handguns should do way more damage 1 square away and how about some funny hollywood animations. 3) I like to stack damages, its fun. I was saving up for a toxic/fire/bee triple with maybe an exploding drone, a arty barrage, and a concusion grenade:) Why not! 4) Return fire is cool, but sometimes does too little damage. I like the idea that my team fights on when I'm not there. 5) Commanders are way too limited in weapon choice but have too many abilities that I never use. Experience should count. 6) Neither team should see the first move. 7) add a ten character taunt to each move 8) PLEASE fix multi, if you play obsessively like me, you quickly fill your slots with waiting games. After say 5 days, forfeit and I get the money! Your game is VERY expensive to grind (OK, I bought the expansions but that's it) 10) The realationship of squad points to weapons and hit points and action points seems off. Juan becomes awesome but hippy is eh, a high hp character with say a knife becomes overbalanced. Anything that would help with a greater mix of squad types (a longer range 4 weapon) would spice things up. That's all for now! Keep of the good work, Chris
Posted on 13 February, 2013 - 18:02
Also note that there is a current inconsistency with some melee weapon's damage still being reduced by half and quarter cover. It would be great to see this fixed at the same time with melee buff...
Posted on 14 February, 2013 - 13:41
sounds nice. looking forward to it
Posted on 14 February, 2013 - 21:50
[QUOTE=badman;425912] Gus Marx [LIST] [*]Reduced number of uses of the Sqhurter to 3 [/LIST] Since Gus's squhurter is getting reduced, how about letting it put out people who are on fire? Either a direct hit or one close enough to move a toon, both friendly and enemy. I thought it was odd that healing cures the gas grenade, but not the molotov. This would give a way to put out the fire.
Posted on 14 February, 2013 - 22:38
[QUOTE=badman;425912] Gus Marx [LIST] [*]Reduced number of uses of the Sqhurter to 3 [/LIST] Since Gus's squhurter is getting reduced, how about letting it put out people who are on fire? Either a direct hit or one close enough to move a toon, both friendly and enemy. I thought it was odd that healing cures the gas grenade, but not the molotov. This would give a way to put out the fire.
Personally. I would not want that
Posted on 14 February, 2013 - 23:30
[QUOTE=badman;425912] Gus Marx [LIST] [*]Reduced number of uses of the Sqhurter to 3 [/LIST] Since Gus's squhurter is getting reduced, how about letting it put out people who are on fire? Either a direct hit or one close enough to move a toon, both friendly and enemy. I thought it was odd that healing cures the gas grenade, but not the molotov. This would give a way to put out the fire.
Yeah i dont think we should thread on physics ground here, what molotov offers is only the incurable status effect compared to the toxic. It deals lower damage so making it not cure-able will give it a little more edge in the battlefield. If your having much trouble with it you can still heal the 12 damage on your toon every round, you just cant get rid off it completely thats all ...
Posted on 15 February, 2013 - 02:05
I'm glad I recruited 3 Specialist Suds, c4 "disarming" and dropping multiple buffed c4 sounds fun. I also [U]really[/U] love the melee weapon energy cost reduction. Great job! :D
Posted on 17 February, 2013 - 09:10
Please shorten the game waiting time to 2 days
Posted on 18 February, 2013 - 05:06
Well, making the DOTs no longer stack and reducing the effective range of both Kate and Juan basically destroy a type of playstyle. That will make the game even more leaning toward snipers lineup. It will also make both of their abilities totally useless as Juan do more damage per round with a sniper rifle, why bother using skills? And with the gas bomb nerf, people will use merci or gux over kate alot more. I also think this patch is way too dramatic because basically the whole game changed, this will cause old players get frustrated and leave the game that they are used to. I think changes should be make little by little as of now, the major issue isnt the balance of the game, rather it is the lack of functionality like messaging, limiting time, etc...
Posted on 21 February, 2013 - 18:59
Well, making the DOTs no longer stack and reducing the effective range of both Kate and Juan basically destroy a type of playstyle. That will make the game even more leaning toward snipers lineup. It will also make both of their abilities totally useless as Juan do more damage per round with a sniper rifle, why bother using skills? And with the gas bomb nerf, people will use merci or gux over kate alot more. I also think this patch is way too dramatic because basically the whole game changed, this will cause old players get frustrated and leave the game that they are used to. I think changes should be make little by little as of now, the major issue isnt the balance of the game, rather it is the lack of functionality like messaging, limiting time, etc...
Totally agree!!!
Posted on 21 February, 2013 - 19:54
Yes I agree too
Posted on 21 February, 2013 - 20:46
Well, making the DOTs no longer stack and reducing the effective range of both Kate and Juan basically destroy a type of playstyle.
What are you talking about? There was more to Juan/Kate than DoT-stacking which guaranteed you could run around hiding for three turns while still inflicting obscene amounts of damage.
That will make the game even more leaning toward snipers lineup.
While I have no idea how you drew that conclusion from strictly what you said above, that's something I'm sure nobody really wants and will be tweaked, which is why I suggested the sniper rifle tweaks earlier...
It will also make both of their abilities totally useless as Juan do more damage per round with a sniper rifle, why bother using skills?
...and you've lost us again. When current DoT's aren't viciously murdering everything, they make a great deterrent and if you can catch an enemy Medic in one, you're doing irreversible damage to what's likely the team's only healing source. Dropping the radius isn't going to end the usefulness of either, especially not Fire, which can't be put out by medkits.
And with the gas bomb nerf, people will use merci or gux over kate alot more.
Well now I know you've lost it, nobody's going to use Angela. Kidding aside, Kate has major pressure potential even factoring in for the incoming nerf, and people are already using Gus over Kate because tactically speaking, the water cannon is an absolute game-changer, which is also why it's getting brought down a bit.
I also think this patch is way too dramatic because basically the whole game changed, this will cause old players get frustrated and leave the game that they are used to.
I can't even begin to pick apart what's wrong with this sentence. Old players aren't going to quit over something like this. If they "leave the game they're used to" they were likely not really interested in playing it in the first place. Most casual players are probably just going to take the changes in stride, and the older players will adapt, offer criticisms and suggestions, and generally continue helping the game along as they have been. There's a number of us who have been with the game since selective release, and none of them seem as moved as you are over this.
I think changes should be make little by little as of now, the major issue isnt the balance of the game, rather it is the lack of functionality like messaging, limiting time, etc...
The game needs attention to both balance and functionality, and thankfully that's exactly what it will get, judging from recent community chats and basically everything else that's been discussed.
Posted on 21 February, 2013 - 21:19
Im glad everyone's not gonna be running around with kate anymore, and why would it be bad if people used angela and guss more?
Posted on 21 February, 2013 - 22:31
I also hope they introduce a stats system so people can see stats from players like Catnadian and just totally ignore them. "No one use merci" lol, go play some more games before coming on and starting ****. You can posts a match to me so I can quick you to show how much you know
Posted on 23 February, 2013 - 22:53
I also hope they introduce a stats system so people can see stats from players like Catnadian and just totally ignore them. "No one use merci" lol, go play some more games before coming on and starting ****. You can posts a match to me so I can quick you to show how much you know
He wasnt trying to be a jerk trust me, ive been on the forums long enough to know that. Secondly, there is a very high chance he shows you up, what lvl are you and how long have you been playing? Lastly, if anyone is trying to start something, its you saying vulgar words.
Posted on 24 February, 2013 - 00:07
Let's not make the thread about this.
I was going to argue against Kate's reduction, I use her a lot, but her grenade was over powered. Guess I won't be winning matches with just a single toss anymore. Those are all good suggestions, but I disagree with the limit of the ghost powerup.
I missed this from the last page. If it's one thing that the tournament has taught me, it's how ridiculous being able to Ghost for three turns can be. If your tank sniper is in trouble, just Ghost him out and heal him, and the enemy can do next to nothing about it until the ability expires, or until he runs into a trap which could cost him one or two Soldiers. They could waste AoEs trying to flush him out, but those could probably be better used elsewhere.
Posted on 24 February, 2013 - 00:24
If your tank sniper is in trouble, just Ghost him out and heal him, and the enemy can do next to nothing about it until the ability expires, or until he runs into a trap which could cost him one or two Soldiers. They could waste AoEs trying to flush him out, but those could probably be better used elsewhere.
Which is why the aim should always be to grant a swift death to the toon in one turn rather than just hurting him massively which would spook the toon into a retreat-heal. Not that it's an entirely bad thing either since the toon would retreat providing less firepower support on the front lines. Also handy to note is that with the opponent having a medic in the team it would have less firepower since medic weapons are generally shorter range and weaker in comparison(with the exception of gus+colt at near range). Of course this would be limited to 26 point games where one can have enough firepower to kill the heavy toon in a turn while still boosting a variety of abilities like detecto-sweep. In the end when it comes down to it, its all about how well we are able to strategize and assess the situation, exploiting weak ends for assured victory.
Posted on 24 February, 2013 - 03:43
Which is why the aim should always be to grant a swift death to the toon in one turn rather than just hurting him massively which would spook the toon into a retreat-heal. Not that it's an entirely bad thing either since the toon would retreat providing less firepower support on the front lines.
This is part of the reason why Juan is such a powerhouse, and perhaps too much of one. Even in 14pt games, his optimal damage output means any class is guaranteed done for unless your positioning is such that you cannot be scooted, and that usually means you're relinquishing the point, and that's never good.
Also handy to note is that with the opponent having a medic in the team it would have less firepower since medic weapons are generally shorter range and weaker in comparison(with the exception of gus+colt at near range).
And this lends to why Angela is kind of in a weird little niche of her own: Kate provides flexible attack options and a powerful DoT while Gus is a close-range murder machine with 300HP and one of the best abilities in the game. Angela just heals, and is moderately good with a melee weapon if you can get your enemy in such a way that they have to advance into you, but there's arguably better options for both. Theoretically you could gather DoT victims around to try and mitigate that, but then you're opening yourself up to other avenues of suffering.
Posted on 24 February, 2013 - 07:11
Also handy to note is that with the opponent having a medic in the team it would have less firepower since medic weapons are generally shorter range and weaker in comparison
Given that squad points are connected to weapons and not soldiers, a weak medic weapon generally means a better weapon elsewhere. I've never felt FP-deprived with the medic weapons. As a light Kate can shoot & scoot well, and her grenade may do a great deal of damage. Gus can rip things up at short range... and I'm often using his special ability more than his weapon anyway. OTOH, I do make sure the squad isn't lacking in longer-ranged weapons - especially if I'm using more than one medic. (Medic-engineer combo squads can easily have a weapon range problem.) All that leaves out Angela, I guess... but I generally do. It'll be interesting to see how Kate seems after the patch. (IMO Gus is still going to be a monster.)
Posted on 24 February, 2013 - 22:31
Given that squad points are connected to weapons and not soldiers, a weak medic weapon generally means a better weapon elsewhere.
True, a weaker medic means a better weapon elsewhere but the team would still be having less firepower compared to an opposing team carrying a full assault team. With more members that is catered for offense, the assault team would easily kill a toon with attack or skills in a turn allowing no chance of healing. When that happens, since the other toons are the one carrying the bulk of the firepower any lost in a toon will reduce the team's ability to deal significant damage. If you still dont get my drift try to imagine a medic setup as having 3 cannons and an assault team having 4 cannons. More major pieces allows you to cover more flanks, and contribute to more offense in focus fire on a target.
Posted on 25 February, 2013 - 01:58
I haven't visited this thread in awhile. It's taken quite the turn. Not everyone can be pleased. We all have our thoughts on the perfect RAD soldiers game and I'm positive they all differ. The splash damage of the Molotov cocktail and gas grenade absolutely had to decrease. It's laughable how many tiles they hit. Other than that honestly, not much balancing is needed. I think these devs did a great job.
Posted on 25 February, 2013 - 06:04
Yeah 7 squares diameter circle is large, what more some maps are small like bridge for example. *chuckles* But majorly i have to say i look forward the most to see changes that would make Carlito and Scud more useful in combat. Its sad to see some toons barely making an appearance in matches.
Posted on 25 February, 2013 - 06:45
Yeah 7 squares diameter circle is large, what more some maps are small like bridge for example. *chuckles*
Agreed. Tbh I think this is actually the best change in the list (and I use Juan and Kate a lot - possibly too much!). :)
But majorly i have to say i look forward the most to see changes that would make Carlito and Scud more useful in combat.
A Scud would be massively OP. Turn 1: launch Scud. Turn 2: enemy team vaporised. Collect winnings. :D Joking aside, I too hope the changes make some of the less-seen toons more viable. I don't own a Suds, an Archie, a Taschman or a Hatlacker yet (Hatlacker is going to be my next purchase) and I hardly ever face them in 26 point matches. I've started playing Carlito but he's hard to justify compared to say Juan, although it can be fun to dose him up on No Harma Pharma and use the "Gus Delivery System" to shunt him right into the middle of the enemy with his Hamjack. :eek:
Posted on 25 February, 2013 - 08:31
A Scud would be massively OP. Turn 1: launch Scud. Turn 2: enemy team vaporised. Collect winnings. :D
Hahahaha an error on my part. A scud would actually be a ballistic missile. Suds, Spud, Scud they all sound pretty close hahaha
Posted on 26 February, 2013 - 02:48
Cant u allow heavier weapons to Kate? Id like to give her a rifle etc too.
Posted on 26 February, 2013 - 16:19
No. She'd be way too overpowered.
Posted on 27 February, 2013 - 00:01
I'd like to see Angela allowed other weapons. Even with the upcoming changes she's weak sauce compared to the other medics IMO. Oh well, A step at a time.
Posted on 27 February, 2013 - 03:22
If any weapon were allowed to the Medic, I'd prefer them to be shotguns, as they are firmly in the domain of Engineers, which hardly see much use unless you have Megan or like Carlito. Not sure if it would be completely fair, but allowing the Medic class rifles is just a wee bit too much.
Posted on 27 February, 2013 - 05:46
I believe medics should remain with their array of weapons as what they contribute to the team is more in general to endurance and not firepower. The possible upcoming fire and toxic radius nerf and also the elimination of stackable DoT, may see a better contribution of medics especially with Angela Merci. However i have to say it would be actually very VERY interesting to have a side-mode where all classes can hold all types of weapons. One have to argue its tempting and just for pleasure sake to have a rifled medic battle inspired by the expansion mission "CP-Sisters of Merci - Two Angela Mercis, with sniper rifles. Healing, death-dealing markswoman! These Mademoiselles never Miss!" Just the description alone gives you the tingles, hahahahahaha :D
Posted on 27 February, 2013 - 06:25
The problem with Angela is that she can't compete with Kate or Gus. Kate is nimble and has a nasty poison DoT (which is a potential game winner if the enemy doesn't bring a medic). Gus is resilient and his Squhurter can be used offensively or to move friendly toons in potentially game-changing ways. By comparison, Angela has an ability which requires you to clump your toons together in a manner that invites artillery strikes, grenades, rockets or whatever else a competent player has to throw at you - potentially resulting in a net loss of health over time rather than a net gain. I think the changes to Kate and Gus will even things up a bit but tbh Angela is still outclassed. I am starting to wonder whether increasing the radius of her healing aura by one tile might be worth considering. I don't think that would make her particularly OP but it would make it easier to gain the benefits of her ability without having your toons grouped so tightly that any AoE damage is potentially catastrophic.
Posted on 27 February, 2013 - 08:45