weird issue on a map

[BloodLusts]

I found this weird bug in my map that i didnt notice until now

The little Window when ur in Limbo that shows the camera view of the Limbo_Camera etc..

when the map first loads its supposed to load a Default Camera

however when my map loads it loads a camera that seems to be buring under the terrain so ur seeing half above the terrain and half below the terrain

as in i can see the sky texture on the bottom of the terrain and i can see the normal view ontop of the terrain --

i think some how i am supposed to setup a Default camera for the map start but im not sure

any ideas?

[BloodLusts]

I also cannot make Lights work - I placed a Light under a light fixture - with a value of 300 on the Light key etc... -- I compiled BSP with -Light

and it doesnt show up - and the tutorials ive read say to do it the same way etc.. - it just dont work so any ideas on these 2 issues

[eRRoLfLyNN]

I also cannot make Lights work - I placed a Light under a light fixture - with a value of 300 on the Light key etc... -- I compiled BSP with -Light

and it doesnt show up - and the tutorials ive read say to do it the same way etc.. - it just dont work so any ideas on these 2 issues
When you load your map, you can see no light around the place where the light should be at all?

When you say "I placed a Light", explain what you did.

[BloodLusts]

PLaced a Light Entity - with all the proper settings etc.. - I have even tried pointing it to a NotNull to make a spotlight -- no matter what it doesnt display the light in game at all

i have compiled with -vis -fast -light - fast , -light -fast, -vis -light -fast etc.....

still the damned light dont show in game -- so to answer ur question by placing a Light i mean I correctly setup a Light Entity (Not LightJR, DLight,Corona , etc..) but a Regular Light Entity

also i still havent gotten that camera issue fixed either - lmao these are the only 2 bugs i have now - lights and camera - after i get these fixed i can add the rest of my small brushwork details etc..

any help is appreciated

EDIT: the Sad thing is Coronas Work in map but none of the other light entities do :(

Also isnt the -light compile supposed to also place a Script file in the Scripts folder telling the game the lightgrid layout or such like that? - cuz it has not been doing that either

ALSO - on my light compile the Display screen while its compiling says illuminated 0 luxels - from what i understand from that - it means no surfaces were illuminated

yet i have 6 light entities sitting under a light fixture Texture - all with a Light Value of 600
that should make the room they are in damn near WHITE -- yea all u can see is the light fixture texture - no lights at all just the plain texture i used for the fixture

and in GTK when u Select the Light entities (SHIFT - CLICK ) -- the Lights work they lighten up the room fine - its only in game the light entities arent functioning

any ideas?


ADDED UPDATE:
The Camera Bug is Fixed -- I wasnt aware u have to have a Info_limbo_Camera Entity with a Objective value of 0 - for the default starting camera

However the Problem with lights still exists -- lights no matter how i compile or set them up will not show up in game - they show fine in GTK just not in game any suggestions ideas, solutions, etc...

[eRRoLfLyNN]

Sorry to be pedantic about it. But when you play your devmap in ET, all inside places are completely black? there is no light at all from the lights you have placed? Sorry again to ask these stupid questions, but I am trying to understand the light compile myself and I've had similar problems.

All I can think of is your compiler is confused.

[]UBC[ McNite]

Can you plz post the part of the compile log which is the LIGHT stage? I think that might help us understand your problem a lot.

I never found a script for the lighting in the scripts folder. So don't worry there.

What are you compiling with? Radiant?
Did you get the latest Q3map2 and installed it properly?
Which frontend for compiling do you use? (I always recommend q3map2build, its very simple and never let me down.)

Also: plz post a screenshot of the place in your map where you r missing the light.

And what is a "light fixture texture"? Can you post the shader or tell me where to find it in the tex folders?

[S14Y3R]

add: make sure your dynamic lights are turned on in-game. -options/system menu near bottom.

-if worldspawn ambient light is cranked, it will wash-out everything too. :)

[]UBC[ McNite]

Simple lights are not dynamic. They get compiled into the bsp and that s it. So if he s missing them something is going wrong during the compile.

Sidethought: You did put your light entities right into the room and not into a brush right? Just asking cuz you said "sitting under a light fixture Texture".

Maybe get rid of the light fixture texture and try a new compile too.

[BloodLusts]

-sighs- lol

I did it exactly as i described it -- lol

I know how to add a light entity to a map and i know how to compile with light - and to answer the questions on is there any light at all - No there isnt

My latest test was like this

used a White Corona to make a bit of a white blare where the light is like a light bulb - and added a Light Entity Under it

still in game the Light Entity itself doesnt show up -- However the little corona's white light did - just the normal light entity didnt


- id post u pics but i am in a rush so i cant right now

but i think its some weird error in GTK keeping lights from working - im positive its not the way i place em

[BloodLusts]

here are some Screenshots of this BS here -- I am using GTK 1.4.0 and q3map2

www.jwservers.com/shots/shot0000.jpg
www.jwservers.com/shots/GTKLightProcess.png
www.jwservers.com/shots/GTKShot.png

Thats a Ingame shot of where light needs to be - and isnt lol - a shot of the screen showing the Light Process
and then a Shot showing the Lights in GTK

now in GTK i tested this time with One light pointed at a info_not_null and one just sitting there not pointing anywhere - just a straight light entity

please gimme a hand here - this is all that i have left to add to this map is the lighting

[kamikazee]

Sure you do BSP -meta before the -light stage?

I'm clueless...

[BloodLusts]

I run a BSP -mete
then -vis -fast
then i enable running the engine after compile -light -fast then run

so it creates the BSP - adds meta info - adds vis info - then i run it to add light info and run the game after to test it - etc.. still no lights

im lost

even if i run a full command of

bsp -meta -vis -light -fast -filter

still no lights

[BloodLusts]

WAIT i think i found an issue

my GTK thinks the Base path to my game is
C:/Program Files/Wolfenstein - Enemy Territory//

the extra SLASH at the end might be the culprit -- but i dont know where to change that

ALSO when i try to make a misc_Gamemodel it tries to load it from
C:/Program Files/Wolfenstein - Enemy Territory//etmain/models/ etc.. so on and so on

perhaps thats causing the issue with a light compile - its got paths wrong -- where in the blue hell do i change those paths

= OK Paths are fixed
i can load models with no problems and such now - and it has no more // (double slashes)

but lights still arent showing up in game

[kamikazee]

What happens when you try to compile a testmap with only a little room and only 1 light inside? (Add a few spawns to check it out in-game of course)
If that works, try copying the room you've shown in the screenshots to a seperate file and see if it compiles then.
If it doesn't we can try to look further again... Maybe a shader issue where it doesn't draw the lightmap. I've seen things like that.

[kamikazee]

Changing the path manually: go to your GTKRadiant install folder. Look for a folder called games.
Edit ET.game and change the basepath there.

NOTE: It may be called "enginepath_win32" as well, see for yourself, it should look obvious.

[eRRoLfLyNN]

Is the first shot a shot taken after you've run the light compile? I'm guessing not, but must ask. :]

[BloodLusts]

Light worked perfect in a small single room with one light entity -- hrm so why it not working where im at in my map

Im using a normal texture in my map not a custom so the light shouldnt be being effected by a Shader in that room

im lost

ok i retextured that room to test again - and still no lights showing up

lol -- this is got me stumped

[BloodLusts]

FIXED - It seems my Ambient Light settings on the WorldSpawn was washing it out

- now my only problem is the map has a Sky from fueldump so the outside of the map is way to darker then i meant

but i can toss light entities in it to help

- anyone have any other ideas on lighting the outside of the map in a decent way????

i dont wanna add light entites in a grid over the map like other mappers do cuz that can also toss the FPS out the window

i need a way to light the outside of the map without sacrificing FPS and R_Speeds

so any suggestions are appreciated

Thanks for all the helps u guys

i appreciate it all
JW

[S14Y3R]

Open up your sky shader and have a look(etmain/scripts/fueldump.shader)There's a line called q3map_sun. this is where you edit the sunlights intensity, direction, and elevation(dawn, or high noon).

// q3map_sun <red> <green> <blue> <intensity> <degrees> <elevation>
textures/fueldump/fueldumpsky
{
qer_editorimage textures/skies/fueldump_clouds.tga
q3map_lightrgb 0.8 0.9 1.0 //light color?
q3map_skylight 85 3 //not sure
q3map_sun 1 .95 .9 200 210 28 //<<------------!this is where the sunlight comes from, and what color
skyparms - 200 - //cloud height? -unsure
surfaceparm nodlight
surfaceparm noimpact
surfaceparm nolightmap
surfaceparm sky
{
map textures/skies/fueldump_clouds.tga
rgbGen identity
}
{
map textures/skies/fueldump_clouds.tga
blendfunc blend
rgbGen identity
tcMod scroll 0.0005 0.00
tcMod scale 2 1
}
}

create your own shader(if you haven't already) and tweak that one, so you don't mess up the original. just be sure to name everything the same, Liketextures/fueldump/fueldumpsky should be textures/yourmapname/yoursky and name the shader "yourmapname". Then you can change the intensity of q3map_sun for varying levels of light.

FIXED - It seems my Ambient Light settings on the WorldSpawn was washing it out
Glad I could help :) Be sure to link us to your map so we can check it out. :cool:

[BloodLusts]

well does anyone know which one of those settings is the light/brightness setting
a setting i can use without washing out the entire map lol

[S14Y3R]

Open up your sky shader and have a look(etmain/scripts/fueldump.shader)


q3map_sun <red> <green> <blue> <intensity> <degrees> <elevation>
q3map_sun 1 .95 .9 200 210 28 //<<------------!this is where the sunlight comes from, and what color

What part of that didn't you understand? Seriously.... :banghead:

Guy: have you even looked through any of the documentation that came with Radiant????Any of it?? If you are eight years old I apologize. I'll start by directing you to your GtkRadiant Folder.

In there is a: Plethera of Intelectual Inspiration ===>> SHIT TO READ!!
Starting with,

okay,

read carefully,

THE MANUALS!

Help me Jeebas!! Teh boy can read!

C:\Program Files\Wolfenstein - Enemy Territory\Radiant-1.4\docs\Level Designers Reference\index.htmlRead through everything at least once....

As well as:

C:\Program Files\GtkRadiant-1.4\Q3Rad_Manual
C:\Program Files\GtkRadiant-1.4\Terrain_Manual
C:\Program Files\GtkRadiant-1.4\Compile_Manual
C:\Program Files\GtkRadiant-1.4\Q3AShader_Manual<<<---Might be worth reading, eh, contains Sun stuff.

Read through everything at least once....

V53!!

[BloodLusts]

well for ur information I have read the GTK Manuals and the LDR - and according to the information i read

q3map_sun 1 .95 .9 200 210 28

the 200 is the Light Intensity - yet when its increased it appears to have no effect on lighting - i jacked it to 1000 no effect
I have also tried making it brighter with surfacelight parm etc..

no go - and i am using the FuelDump Sky

and just because someone posts asking for help doesnt mean they havent read the information nor does it mean they cannot read

perhaps people make posts for help because they didnt understand the information or perhaps they didnt catch a specific part of the information

for me - i posted for ideas on how to increase brightness because i think i may have missed something somewhere

so ill say it again

if anyone has any ideas / suggestions on how to increase the light emitted from the sky texture im using -- Id love to hear them

Also u stated -- This is where the sun/light comes from on your original post

u never stated which setting within that line is the actual Light setting

which i know its the 3rd number/numbers from the Right hand side etc..

[kamikazee]

Adding light entities should not necessarily result in a lower FPS, as there's a lightmap calculated anyway. Lights don't even are in the BSP, it are only their results that are shown. But the sky light is of course easier to create and maintain then a whole grid of lights, so we'll look into that:

I can't really imagine how your outdoors part looks that it doesn't get lit up by the sky shader. Is it possible you have one high hill or wide slope that actually casts shadows on other surfaces? If so, you could try to make a custom version of the sky shader where you change the angle and elevation. (Higher elevation = looks more like a summer-noon, less shadows if you look from the top)
If that won't do a thing, increasing the intensity won't make the shadows lighter, you need some Q3Map2 shader directives which would diffuse the light more to the shadows. I'll edit my posts when I can look up the particular part in the new Q3Map2 shader manual.

And if all else fails: there is a (better) alternative to ambient light: minlight. It only affects the dark parts of your map but doesn't light up the rest of it.

[BloodLusts]

Kamikaze - u hit the nail on the head man

this map is surroudned by tall mountains - and after reading ur post - the position of the sun is causing alot of my map to cast shadows
which in turn looks darker - and is also why i cant make it increase light by changing light intensity

ill look into minlight perhaps that will solve my problems

ADDED: I toyed with minlight for a minute and seems to have not helped

Below is a screenshot - The shot is what it looks like Now

but if u adjust brightness in ET to 2.0 - it looks like i want - however in ET u cannot write a screenshot and have it show the brightness calibrated -

Shot 1 (Before Color Tweak in-game)
http://www.jwservers.com/shots/shot0001.jpg

so basically i want that to look like it would if u had ET jacked to 2.0 brightness settings - the shadows are all still there even with 2.0 brightness and such - i mean i want the shadows and all the realistic effects of the lighting - i just need its outside Brighter

perhaps chaging the position of the Sun in the Sky - but im not to smart at doing that (adjusting its coordinates etc..)

here is the current sun settings

q3map_lightrgb 0.8 0.9 1.0
q3map_skylight 85 3
q3map_sun 1 .95 .9 500 210 28
skyparms - 200 -

from my understanding - q3map_sun - 1 .95 .9 - are color setting - 500 is light intensity - 210 28 is coordinates -
but that makes 0 sense cuz coordinates need more then just 2 sets

the document i read says thats their settings though - so if someone can clearify i appreciate it

[kamikazee]

I'd first try to mess with the skyshader, these give the best results.

Minlight is for the final touch or rare cases were nothing helps.

I hope you can get it fixed - good luck! ;)

[BloodLusts]

eh - read my post above urs kamikazee - i edited it

--

well i Finally found the q3map2 Manual
http://members.lycos.co.uk/quakeroats/q3map2/shader_manual/

now that i know the settings to toy with - im still not seeing a difference lol any ideas

[kamikazee]

First of all, if you want to continue with your experiments, get rid of the _minlight key again. Eventually put it back in the end.

Toying around with the angle parameter may not help if your terrain has the same height everywhere.
The last parameter in the q3map_sun directive is the elevation, if you set it to 90 your terrain should be lit straight from above. (It may look bad at that moment, so put it lower once it works)
If it won't light up then, it means something is wrong as Q3Map2 is probably not using your shader. Make sure then your custom sky shader is all over the brushes that form your sky. (Except the nonvisible parts, of course) Allso, check for duplicate shaders and if your shader file is in shaderlist.txt

[]UBC[ McNite]

several thoughts on this...

a) The question whether a light entity shows up or not should NOT be connected to most of what u discussed. Its still a riddle to me why the lights won't show up. I d love to try a compile of that map myself and check the compile logfile. And I still don't know what version of q3map2 you are using, and the way you describe your compiling process makes me wonder about how you actually compile. It can well be that your compile is crooked.
b) Lights won't have a real impact on the FPS. They are compile-time entities, not runtime-entities. (This is diff with the doom3 engine where light seems to be the fps-dropping factor iirc.)
c) Your rock looks wierd... try go get a bit of a decent mountainrange done with EasyGen or FATE.

d) If you want a bit of basic light even in the shadowy areas I recommend you use key/value: ambient / 10 and k/v: _color / 1 1 1 in the worldspawn. I know lots of ppl say "ambient flattens out your map" but if you use a low value its perfect to get rid of the total dark areas imo. TheRiver II Redux uses ambient 14 and i m very happy with its lighting. (NEVER get the idea of using the gamma switch in q3map2 btw.)
If you are unsure on whether an ambient of 10 is too much: disable the skyshader which is your light source and see how dim your map will be with the ambient alone. However if you use the skyshader i m posting below it will be a lot brighter than the ambient of 10 or 12 and there s no "washing out".

e) Your sky-shader is too old. The latest q3map2-versions can do much more and better stuff. Try this skyshader:

textures/river2nd_t/rv2ndsky_011
{
qer_editorimage textures/river2nd_t/rv2ndsky_011.jpg

q3map_sunExt 1 .95 .9 65 60 55 3 16 //color intensity-65 degree elevation deviance samples
q3map_lightmapFilterRadius 0 8
q3map_skylight 50 3

skyparms - 128 - //low value >> more curved sky

surfaceparm sky
surfaceparm noimpact
surfaceparm nolightmap
surfaceparm nodlight

nopicmip

{
map textures/river2nd_t/rv2ndsky_011.jpg
rgbGen identity
}
{
map textures/river2nd_t/rv2ndsky_011.jpg
blendfunc blend
rgbGen identity
tcMod scroll 0.002 0.001
tcMod scale 1.4 1.4
}
}

Its from the map mp_theriver_2nd or The River II. Yea its the predecessor of TheRiver II Redux, but on Redux i use fog, so you r well away with this shader. The shader has 2 scrolling blends, so you can put in the path to the fueldump clouds if you like.

The parameters for q3map_sunExt are
color - in rgb colors
intensity - says it all
degree elevation - for simulating the sun position, and you only need these 2 parameters, 90 90 would mean its noon and the sun is exactly above you
deviance samples - for penumbra shadowcasting (=soft edges)


f) What are your settings in your worldspawn? Maybe you have some weird stuff in there that gives you the trouble with your lights.


@ slayer: I think your tune wasn't the right one when helping.
But one thing is true: ppl often don't exactly post their problem or what they tried to solve the prob. That s why others have to ask a lot of questions to get a clue or ppl give tips that are not helpful.

[kamikazee]

He had too much ambient light, it actually washed away everything.
And you're right, Q3Map2 has got neater stuff, but the skyshader won't work yet. Maybe it's the angle, maybe it's something else? He could of course replace his old shader with the new one and see if it works, if it doesn't he can continue with that one...

[BloodLusts]

thx for the tips

as of right now i have continued with the old shader and just leaving the map dark - and letting the player decide to tweak his brightness in ET

The ET Brightness Adjuster at a full 2.0 looks perfect - and alot of people i know use 2.0 because the GoldRush Map and FuelDepot are rather dark on default ET Settings

However ill give that River shader a go around


- my map does have high mountains all around it - which is where shadows are comming -- I dont mind specific shadows in spots - its just the overall outside of the map is to dark

hopefully with that river shader i can remedy that without loosing my shadowing -- personally shadowing is the only way to really make a decent looking light - like in spots on the map i have outside lights that lighten up shadowed spots - so u can see where the lights are and the shadows around em - just looks better

as for my mountains - the terrain was done in EasyGen then i noticed the Terrain was WAY to small so i sort of had to do a choppy edit on the terrain to snag more space - hence the reason the mountains are nice and smooth near the top - then like a shear wall they come straight down lol


This map is actually made for Practices within our place ETL Gaming - our community site - i have in this map a target range,dualing arena, sniper arena - and Objective Practice - so its really a full featured all in one map - thats Dual OBJ as well

so i made it more for fun then actual public release - HOWEVER - I may release it public see who else is interested in it as well - I know my Guys at The ET Lounge are anxious cuz they bombard me with IMS to release a beta - just from seeing screenshots lol

Anyways again THX for those tips ill give it a shot

BTW - Light entities work now - cuz i turned Ambient Off like kamikazee said - I have ambient washing out the entire map

so ill give that river shader a shot and go from there

again thanks for the help and tips

[]UBC[ McNite]

What was your ambient value?

as for my mountains - the terrain was done in EasyGen then i noticed the Terrain was WAY to small so i sort of had to do a choppy edit on the terrain to snag more space - hence the reason the mountains are nice and smooth near the top - then like a shear wall they come straight down lol
You did know you can scale the height of a terrain in EasyGen when you import the heightmap, right?

[BloodLusts]

i didnt use any height map - i actually editted the terrain 100% using EasyGen - normally i can make very decent terrains but in this map i didnt mind the terrain being a bit off looking

-- as for ambient value - I had it at like 600 - was just to bright in all of the map for lights to appear
- id recommend using no Ambient Value until after u place lights then tweak the ambient value and minlight values

[]UBC[ McNite]

id recommend using no Ambient Value until after u place lights then tweak the ambient value and minlight values^

Wrong way round.
First Set a low ambient to get rid of the pitch black areas. Start with 8 and then try 10 or 12. If you are happy with the degree of darkness you get from that, go to
Second: set your lights. That way you can neatly create the right lighting in all the different places, adjusting the lights to an atmosphere you want.

You got to do the general setting (ambient) first and them modify the details (lighting).
And loose the minlight... u only need that when something s screwed up imo.

And how on earth did you choose 600 lol... et_ice has 25 and that s already insane (although it works for that map in the outside areas).