New Map In Progress. who the...?

[S14Y3R]

Hello mappers! I'm Slayer, one of them anyway... I played alot of RTCW a couple years ago and started dabbling in mapping. Long story short: I started on a map for RTCW, but then I moved and was Offline for like a year and a half. So I started working on a version for ET, at the time all I had was basic knowledge, ET and Radiant 1.4.0. Here's what I've got so far...

Some old(OLD) screenshots. (http://ca.geocities.com/bartman666911/panel_main.html) I'll put up some newer pics if there's any interest.

I've gotta work on the story more, but basically here's what's goin on. The axis have been surprise attacked while completing construction of an Uber-Destroyer. There dam generator turbine is vulnerable, and must be kept built for the trainyard track switches, gates, as well as the Shipyard Crane to work. They have to hook up an armoured tug to a flatbed car, get the train to an underground storage facility and bring the part back to the shipyard. Sounds easy enough, right? While in the tunnels there's an "accident" while loading the train which causes the train to become vulnerable on the way back to deliver the part.

Both of the Cranes are Player operated by standing at the controls!! :clap: Both can be driven by each team, </> so it'll be a fight just to get things loaded. Instead of just getting the train there, heh heh. Check out the Shipyard Crane by the Ship. :chef:

The Allies have an obligatory set of docs to steal, and an AA-Gun to take out. On top of holding off the Axis attempts. I've thought about squad co-operation alot, offensive/defensive positioning, so there's alot going on at once.

Beleive it or not the script is working well, seriously! I'm still finishing buildings and trimming everything up. It's amazing how much you can get done without internet access!

Should have an _alpha_01 in a week or so if anyone wants to check it out.

S14Y3R out!

[Pytox]

Looks nice!
keep on mapping :)
Greetz Py

[kamikazee]

Sorry for bringing you the bad news, but shouldn't this (http://ca.geocities.com/bartman666911/assets/map_pics/images/CourthouseVantage.jpg) symbol be replaced with something else?
They're making quite a fuss about it in Germany... :/

EDIT: Ok, Geocities just took off the content for exceeded bandwidth. Check again in an hour.

[S14Y3R]

D'oh! Are you kidding? Crap, are Pentagrams, running blood and bobbing corpses still okay? What if I reverse the swazi(ccw) would they still bitch?

V53 @ geocities!

[kamikazee]

Well, showing swastikas in other context than a historical one is not allowed AFAIK.
I don't know what they think about reversing it, it's said the reversed one has another meaning but it's still risky. (German admins are by law not allowed to put your map on their server or website if a swastika or similar symbol is present.)

I'd change it with a pentagram or a simple form of a cross and change the pic on your site as well.

[S14Y3R]

v41, v43, v583...

[]UBC[ McNite]

Kami is right about the swastika. Your map probably wouldn't be hosted on any server in Germany (and Austria) for that reason.

[Pytox]

You have even maps with the swastika like Das Boot (for ET) it has 2 versions ;) one version with the symbol and one version without it.

[|WND| Codename Ty]

I'd do two versions if I were you, a "Director's Cut" and one without the "offensive" symbols, as Pytox suggests.

[]UBC[ McNite]

2 versions just for a single graphics file is a weird idea imo and adds unnecessary confusion. Use the RtCW/ET-logo instead?

[S14Y3R]

Yeah, I'll just use the wolf symbol instead. Saves confusing people with two versions of the same thing. :)

More people probably play in Germany, eh?

[Pytox]

Yes, there are lot of german servers ;)

[|WND| Codename Ty]

There are also loads of US servers, it's about even actually (the US might have a few more), not to mention all of the other servers which aren't German. I would go for authentic, rather than catering to the watered down crowd if you're only going for one title. Most, if not all WWII games cater to authenticity, why should ET be any different?

[kamikazee]

What's the use of a swastika as a decoration symbol? Might as well replace it by something else...

[|WND| Codename Ty]

Last I checked Enemy Territory was a World War II game...need I say more? Should you not want to see offensive symbols or offensive subject matter in a game perhaps a Mature rated World War II game isn't your speed. To deny what happened and be "handcuffed" into watering down levels is preposterous and does nobody any favors.

It's rather ridiculous that people have no problem going around killing people in game all day, blowing them into bits, but the slighest "adult" language, pics or symbols and it throws all these people into a hissy fit, quite contradictory if you ask me....

Were this game not about WWII then you would have a point, but it is, therefore all relevant symbols to the time period are fair game.

[kamikazee]

This is an endless discussion... but I can't resist to reply.

This is a WW2 inspired game. This is not about showing what happened in that period, or what ideas are behind such symbols and got them 'banned'. Those symbols used to represent ideas, ideas that are utterly bad. Why spread those symbols if there are still guys (fools in my eyes) that wear them with pride?
I usually have no real things against it, but I don't see the point here what value it adds. Spreading it at this scale could break it's original meaning (which ain't that bad for the symbol itself as it originates from ancient cultures) but on the other hand is risky since the history behind it may be forgotten. And that last thing can't be tollerated, you can't forget how some ideas have lead to the deaths of lots of people. (No further comments on those ideas behind it, there's cant't be any black/white approach to it)

BTW: ET is more arcade then reality based.

[|WND| Codename Ty]

This is a WWII inspired game. Why don't you leave it at that? These things happened, the Nazis were behind over 12 million plus deaths of non combatants...not covering the numbers of all the Resistance fighters, Allied POW's and Allied troops killed. Once again, should you not want to use the symbols that relate to WWII DO NOT MAP FOR A WWII game, it's as simple as that.

I would also say that ET, had it not been for the objective based gameplay and all the various classes of soldier, which are the realistic portions of the game and seperate it from many of the other FPS's out there...it would not be as popular. The WWII aspect adds to this and many maps (about 100 have done the game justice, the rest are subpar to horrible).

Honestly, if games such as Brothers in Arms: Road to Hill 30 and it's sequel, Brothers in Arms: Earned in Blood, supported more people than it did in it's multiplayer and allowed for the classes that ET has....I doubt as many people would be playing ET today as there are.....

BIA, COD, MOHAA, etc aren't afraid of showing what happened in the war, but yet some people in the ET community not only want to go with arcade symbols and 12 yr old grammar, but also don't want to touch on the subject of over 12 million plus being butchered at the hands of lunatics. Let's just skew the audience to the lowest common denominator...that of the UT and Quake crowds...run around an arena that takes no more than a day or two to build, with made up symbols and people being blown to bits...but the minute someone says something over PG-13...they get reprimanded for it.

It's obvious that the ratings system needs more strict enforcement....

P.S. The original meaning of the swaztika has already been lost (Buddhist religious symbol, as well a symbol from Ancient Greece if memory serves correctly), that happened the first year that Hitler had adopted it. There is no salvaging that fact. By using the symbol, it not only identifies the time period, but alludes to the horror of war. This was, in my opinion, the most important war anyone has ever fought. We should honor the victims and those who fought in this war, whether they be military or Resistance, by showing what happened and not cutting any corners. To do otherwise is a disservice to those who have paid the ultimate sacrifice and it also paints war as a "fun" thing, which it is anything but. The less "arcadey" a WWII game is, the better, otherwise it's just an insult.

[kamikazee]

We simply disagree, I'm going to leave it at that.
I have more fun mapping then to discuss my opinion on ethics (or whatever domain this is), which takes even longer.

[|WND| Codename Ty]

What maps have you made?

[eRRoLfLyNN]

There should really be a GCSE in Dead Kennedys

I don't believe S14Y3R had any problems with using the Wolf stuff, why do you feel the need to continue your pointless argument?

Apologies for any offence, but you have annoyed me.

What maps have you made?
Who the **** are you??

BIA, COD, MOHAA, etc aren't afraid of showing what happened in the war, but yet some people in the ET community not only want to go with arcade symbols and 12 yr old grammar, but also don't want to touch on the subject of over 12 million plus being butchered at the hands of lunatics. Let's just skew the audience to the lowest common denominator...that of the UT and Quake crowds...run around an arena that takes no more than a day or two to build, with made up symbols and people being blown to bits...but the minute someone says something over PG-13...they get reprimanded for it.
...

We should honor the victims and those who fought in this war, whether they be military or Resistance, by showing what happened and not cutting any corners. To do otherwise is a disservice to those who have paid the ultimate sacrifice and it also paints war as a "fun" thing, which it is anything but. The less "arcadey" a WWII game is, the better, otherwise it's just an insult.
It's a fecking game, wise up. What has your bullkeck got to do with it? Go away idiot... (I don't believe I have ever used that word on an internet forum, or abusing anyone in real life - so please don't take it lightly)

(edit: this reply edited at least 203 times due to terrible anger)

Eternal Slayer fan

[|WND| Codename Ty]

There should really be a GCSE in Dead Kennedys

I don't believe S14Y3R had any problems with using the Wolf stuff, why do you feel the need to continue your pointless argument?

Apologies for any offence, but you have annoyed me.

|WND| Codename Ty wrote:
What maps have you made?

Who the **** are you??

|WND| Codename Ty wrote:
BIA, COD, MOHAA, etc aren't afraid of showing what happened in the war, but yet some people in the ET community not only want to go with arcade symbols and 12 yr old grammar, but also don't want to touch on the subject of over 12 million plus being butchered at the hands of lunatics. Let's just skew the audience to the lowest common denominator...that of the UT and Quake crowds...run around an arena that takes no more than a day or two to build, with made up symbols and people being blown to bits...but the minute someone says something over PG-13...they get reprimanded for it.
...

We should honor the victims and those who fought in this war, whether they be military or Resistance, by showing what happened and not cutting any corners. To do otherwise is a disservice to those who have paid the ultimate sacrifice and it also paints war as a "fun" thing, which it is anything but. The less "arcadey" a WWII game is, the better, otherwise it's just an insult.

It's a fecking game, wise up. What has your bullkeck got to do with it? Go away idiot... (I don't believe I have ever used that word on an internet forum, or abusing anyone in real life - so please don't take it lightly)

(edit: this reply edited at least 203 times due to terrible anger)

Eternal Slayer fan

_________________
errol
vplclan.org
213.200.95.39:27975




This is a World War II game and it has a Mature rating, something you obviously failed to see before downloading it. I'll leave it at that to spare your feelings. Better luck on your next project, please, for the sake of the community, don't rush it.

[eRRoLfLyNN]

To reiterate:
Go away idiot...

[|WND| Codename Ty]

You're sad, really. I guess art imitates life, or is it the other way around?

[eRRoLfLyNN]

How profound.

[]UBC[ McNite]

Ty, why don't u just shut up?
As errol said... slayer already made up his mind. I think that marks the end of discussion.

And tbh who the **** do u think you are that you start asking questions like
What maps have you made?
That s the first time I read something like this on this forum (and i ve been on here for 2 years now). If you want to play "I got the biggest dick" go play with the kids in the street. Oh wait... they told u to **** off i guess.

And while errol is a known member on here and has contributed a lot of helpful posts, your last ones only promise its very unlikely that your contributions on here will ever sparkle of ingenuity.
One other thing is for sure... u behave like a moron and insult the members on here that got experience and knowledge... u won't get much help from any of them.


Sidenote... what can u expect from a member of a clan (http://www.newwandererorder.com/Members.html) that has a member named Hitler... says it all. No use to go on discussing anything with Ty... you d get more valuable responses from talking to damp crispbread.

[S14Y3R]

:weird: Where do I start? This is my first map. I originally started working on a version for RTCW, but Wolf was on a steady decline. When I moved to the middle of nowhere I figured Wolf would be totally dead by the time I got back online, so I fired up ET mode and fell into that. I have spent way more time scripting, and debugging than on anything else so far. `/g_scriptdebug 1, /condump wft.txt, lol.

Shaders are fun!
textures/torque_blood/bloody_smear
{
qer_editorimage textures/xlab_wall/xconcrete_c58m.tga
//surfaceparm flesh // I wish..
{
map textures/xlab_wall/xconcrete_c58m.tga
rgbGen vertex
}

{
map models/players/hud/damagedskins/blood04.tga
blendFunc blend
}
}


I've got alot to do yet, hollowing buildings, lighting, vis, basically trimming stuff up. I am trying not to rush through things, when I speak of an Alpha, I mean like pre-alpha_0.01 script tester to make sure everything works all at the same time. It's hard to ride the train in the tunnels and check the shipyard crane.


It is a shame that we should have to censor things in a Mature rated game. I guess I should try to appeal to the masses, so everyone can play. Ecspecially Hans and Fritz, that way we can slaughter them while not offending them. heh heh.

I wonder how implementable(and accurate) this would be, and if I can destroy things with a seperate german friendly script??like _lms? create
{
scriptName "bugfix1"
classname "func_fakebrush"
origin "3632 -4313 881"
contents 65536 // CONTENTS_PLAYERCLIP
mins "-40 -1 -20"
maxs "40 1 10"
}

I've already taken out the Swazi and replaced with a "brushed" 3d Wolf logo, instead of just texturing a flat one.
Lots to do yet, I'll try to put up some more recent screenies later today. I guess this consitutes intrest! :clap:

ps: is there still testing servers around? Maybe a handfull of us could give it a run-through sometime, for S & G.

[Shaderman]

I wonder how implementable(and accurate) this would be, and if I can destroy things with a seperate german friendly script??
You could do a cvar check. Default: No swastika. Setting a cvar "swastika = 1" on the server would use a script_mover for example to show swastikas (for those who can't live without them). German admins wouldn't have to care about forbidden content (default) while others are able to use it. If swastikas were enabled by default, I (as a German admin) wouldn't host the map.

Shaderman

[S14Y3R]

question: If a server has on a "stripped" map, would people be able to play with a seperate pk3? Named the same, with the same script but with/without details. know what I mean? Like the server would be missing "icon's", and one player's pk3 has one set, and another player has another set. would that work? or is it even possible?

[kamikazee]

On a pure server, the players should see the one used on the server, no other things.
On an unpure server it may be possible.

[]UBC[ McNite]

My last thought on "mature rated game"... how do u want to control that when its available as a free download?
Apart from that I don't think any mature player will actually miss a nazi symbol and be disappointed cuz its "only" the wolf flag. (Mature <> being older n 18 ). And those who actually miss the symbol are of the mindset that kamikaze was talking about when stating why not to spread this kind of symbols.
'Nuff said.


Anyways, for the thought of building the map with "switchable" textures... make the flags script_movers (or whatever). Then have 2 of them in the same place only with diff flag textures. Call them flagswastika and flagwolf. Then have the game manager set the flagswastika invisible and the other default. Now in an etpro script you can change this setting. That would be a simple thing and not run u into problems, and whoever needs a swastika on their server and runs etpro can just use your slightly modified script for that.

Citerum censeo: that s too much (wasted) effort for a simple picture. K-I-S-S and just use the wolf flag. I m pretty sure you got other things to worry about than just a graphics file.

[|WND| Codename Ty]

Ty, why don't u just shut up?
As errol said... slayer already made up his mind. I think that marks the end of discussion.

And tbh who the **** do u think you are that you start asking questions like
Quote:
What maps have you made?

That s the first time I read something like this on this forum (and i ve been on here for 2 years now). If you want to play "I got the biggest dick" go play with the kids in the street. Oh wait... they told u to **** off i guess.

And while errol is a known member on here and has contributed a lot of helpful posts, your last ones only promise its very unlikely that your contributions on here will ever sparkle of ingenuity.
One other thing is for sure... u behave like a moron and insult the members on here that got experience and knowledge... u won't get much help from any of them.


Sidenote... what can u expect from a member of a clan that has a member named Hitler... says it all. No use to go on discussing anything with Ty... you d get more valuable responses from talking to damp crispbread

When there comes a time when people who actually know what they are doing start to post in this thread, perhaps they'll be worthy of getting advice from. You're the only one so far that has posted that hasn't made a direct copy of a map or a map that can be made in two days. Says a lot for the community. Now if only hosting services would be more selective in what maps that clog up their bandwidth. To think I had to go through all 700 plus (800 now) maps and you wonder why people think this game is dying?

As for a member's name, they're free to choose whatever they want, it's this little thing Americans call "free speech" and again, this is WWII game. I'd say some people are way too sensitive. In the end though you're right, this is growing tiring and is quite childish as well as quite unworthy of my time. Looking forward to a few good maps which should be releasing soon, perhaps till then you can refrain from attacking eachother in here and then blaming it on someone else.

Good luck on the map Slayer, take your time, don't let anyone rush you, sounds like a good idea.

Fin

[S14Y3R]

I m pretty sure you got other things to worry about than just a graphics file.
That's for sure! :banghead: Mostly its "where to put what" now, everything is working, its just a matter of getting things looking "right". Here's a few newer pics (http://ca.geocities.com/bartman666911/assets/newer_pics/indel.htm), along with the Wolf Logo.

Jeeze, 800 maps! :eek: ? that could be good or bad... how many of those are actually playable/played on servers? I've only got 56k right now, so I'm not even wolfing :(

[kamikazee]

*OFF TOPIC*
I haven't released an own-made map, I'm still working on those, so your post at least applies to me as well.

I confirm I 'made' ET_headshot2 and that it is decompiled from MML_Headshot (RTCW), but don't estimate the time needed to propely convert a map.
Even though it is a decompile, I changed a lot of brushwork, redid the hull and detail, wrote the script from scratch and re-textured the whole thing with respect to the old map which looked quite good.

I'm still working on that one, but I did with the intent to improve the map, not to steal one other's work. I put information on who made what where appropriate. I tried to aim for a higher level of quality then the first conversion of that map, ET_Headshot. I still need to fix a few gameplay issues though.

EDIT: And about those 800 maps: the hosts are partially to blame there, there are a lot of testmaps, private betas and rips to be found that should have never gotton on to those sites. (With rips I mean maps that are only changed so one could put his name under it, without actual improvements)

You know my opinion, I think I know yours. Can we plz keep it at that?


*ON TOPIC*
Same wishes to Slayer though, do your best and use common sense to finish this map.

[]UBC[ McNite]

Slayer, it would be nice if you posted your pics right on here, maybe in a new thread (naming it something like "map in progress "nameofmap"). We always appreciate screenies :D and you d surely get quite some comments too.
From what i can see you r putting a lot of effort into it, that s cool. Maybe post a rough command map with the objectives too? Usually the discussions about objects and maplayout help to improve a map a lot, especially when you don't play much yourself.

What I m worried about is: low FPS in closed rooms... what s your comp specs? Getting 34 FPS in a bedroom would def worry me a lot. But that should be discussed in the new thread then :D

[S14Y3R]

Heh heh, that's 34 without a -vis pass, lol. Strait -bsp, Entire maps drawing on the other side of that wall, shipyard and all! lol There is a command map on the "map overview panel" off the main page(should still be there, I hope). I'll post future screenies in a new thread and let this one fade.

Geocities doesn't allow hyperlinking, know of a free-host that'll allow me to do that? Or somewhere to upload them too.

[eRRoLfLyNN]

Maybe try imageshack.us if you want a quick image host, or domaindlx.com is a good freehost if you want to keep adding stuff.

[S14Y3R]

Thanks man!

Testing:

http://j.domaindlx.com/s14y3r/tribal666.jpg

Cool it works! Back to mapping so I have something to show :rocker2: