TramFight Beta2 Release

[FireFly]

It took me somewhat longer than expected, But finally Tramfight! beta2 is done.

Here are some ingame screenshots showing some of the new created areas....

http://members.chello.nl/~n.raats1/tramfight/tb2_1s.jpg (http://members.chello.nl/~n.raats1/tramfight/tb2_1.jpg) http://members.chello.nl/~n.raats1/tramfight/tb2_2s.jpg (http://members.chello.nl/~n.raats1/tramfight/tb2_2.jpg) http://members.chello.nl/~n.raats1/tramfight/tb2_3s.jpg (http://members.chello.nl/~n.raats1/tramfight/tb2_3.jpg) http://members.chello.nl/~n.raats1/tramfight/tb2_4s.jpg (http://members.chello.nl/~n.raats1/tramfight/tb2_4.jpg)
http://members.chello.nl/~n.raats1/tramfight/tb2_5s.jpg (http://members.chello.nl/~n.raats1/tramfight/tb2_5.jpg) http://members.chello.nl/~n.raats1/tramfight/tb2_6s.jpg (http://members.chello.nl/~n.raats1/tramfight/tb2_6.jpg) http://members.chello.nl/~n.raats1/tramfight/tb2_7s.jpg (http://members.chello.nl/~n.raats1/tramfight/tb2_7.jpg) http://members.chello.nl/~n.raats1/tramfight/tb2_8s.jpg (http://members.chello.nl/~n.raats1/tramfight/tb2_8.jpg)

It didn't took me very long to figure out that the beta1 version had some gameplay issues.
Most important one was that the map was just too easy for allies to complete:
Below is a list of changes I made to the map that hopefully will fix these issues.
I also added some new features to the map that I already had planned for the beta1 release....

Here's the (more or less) complete list of changes I made:

Gameplay:

The whole area where the wooden bridge and command post was has been replaced with an indoor structure:
containing an old castle and a church.
This forced me to make the map some 1000 units bigger.

The game now has 3 stages:

stage1) Allies must drive the tram to the old castle: Once there the iron gates in the church will open where the venom cannon (objective) lies.
The tram can not be moved untill the next stage has been completed.

stage2) Allies must steal this venom cannon and deliver it to the tram.

stage3) Allies must drive the tram ,containing the objective, to the second station.

Spawns:

- Axis can nolonger enter the allied spawn (station1) to prevent spawnkilling
- Allied spawn (station1) now has an alternate exit.
- Now 24 players per team can spawn instead of 18 to avoid players to get stuck in eachother while spawning
- The axis Spawn (station1) has moved to the south. Therefor Axis and Allies will nolonger spawn in the same room.
- The second axis spawn (station 2) now has a third exit that will lead towards a tower (for sniping)

- Different autospawns for both axis and allies.
In beta1 the position of the tram would decide where players would autospawn.
This caused allot of confusion with players as often the autospawns would constantly change within seconds.
In this version players will only change spawns when allies manage to get the tram to the 'old castle'.

- The constructible flag has been replaced by a normal "capture the flag" (like in railgun) once captured players will never autospawn at the flag, but have to pick it in the limbo menu....

The tram

-The tram model has been rebuild from scratch: it's now 1/3 smaller and is looking more realistic by adding more details. The original model was way too big. I expected that the tram would be crowded with allies, But in fact only 1 or 2 allies would board the tram. Therefor I made it smaller. I also got rid of the weapon & panzerclips covering the tram windows. For some reason they often would not stop panzers penetrating the windows.

- Tram will now cast a shadow on the ground ( thanks to Detoeni)

The generator

- Allies can now construct a generator that will increase the speed of the tram. Once build the tram will speed up from 120 units per second to 200 units per second (the tug in 'railgun' also has a speed of 200 units /sec) The speed increase only applies to the allied team: When an axis players enters the tram the speed will always remains 120 units /sec. When build, the axis can destroy the generator with dynamite only..

Note: When the generator is constructed players can use the generator to jump on the roof section of the old castle.

Misc

- A shortcut has been created from the axis spawn towards the allied spawn to intercept the tram.
- Players can now reach the courtyard by a shortcut from the west.
-1 extra mg has been added that needs to be constructed ( 2 in total: 1 for axis / 1 for allies)
- Redid the sky texture: less clouded and added a sunny sunshader to it (photoshop flares included)
- Overall: Redid some of the existing textures, added a bunch of new custom textures and added more details to the map.
- Some new ambient sounds where added.

Yesterday I wanted to upload the map to pcgamemods.com ,but the site seems to be gone.
As an alternative I uploaded the file to savefile.com but the problem is that the file will automatically be deleted after 14 days.

Anyway here's the link to tramfight_beta2: http://www.savefile.com/files/2007192

EDIT: New mirrors have been added :D
http://new-etmaps3.de/maps/trmfght_beta2.rar ( thank you chiemseeman)
http://returntocastlewolfenstein.filefront.com/file/;47065( thank you Northerner)
http://wolfmap.gameprophets.com/details.php?file_id=1268 ( thank you Berzerkr)



Like always: Any suggestions, comments or bug-reports that will help me improve this map will be more than welcome...

Firefly,

[kamikazee]

Nice screenies, I'll give it a try. ;)

[EB]

Sexier than before. Too bad I don't play the game...hehe.

[Pytox]

Nice screenies, i will have a look at the map :)

[kamikazee]

1 misc. error found: the allied MG 42 close to station 1 has a wrong 'track' key/value. It says "You are near the axis MG42".

[Tranny]

Screens look great. Downloading now.

[FireFly]

Just checked that MG42 within radiant, you're right it , It has the wrong track: It should say "You are near the Allied MG42". I hope not to many of these errors will pop up. Nice spotting kamikazee, This will be on the "needs-to-be-fixed-list" for the final release of the map...

[Northerner]

great job firefly, this should improve your map a LOT! and i love your little logo on your pictures! way cool & professional looking!

i also got your map mirrored on rtcwfiles.com
http://returntocastlewolfenstein.filefront.com/file/;47065

[blushing_bride]

this map is amazing.Surely one of the most finely crafted and high quality ET maps ever made. Honestly i might need to change my name to gushing_bride after seeing this.

[Uchronic]

This map is really awesome. What a great design.
The only flaw is that when I play it, I love to look at your work instead of fraggin'
:D

[jtiger]

Looking foward to playing it, looks very professional.

[Florisjuh]

/callvote putteam firefly splashdamage
:P

Very nice map! I'll enjoy playing this just like the first beta... :]

[Shaderman]

Looks really nice! Have to find some time to play it :(

[TheTrooper]

Really GREAT MAP !!! :banana: 2nd error is when player is inside the train there is annoying tip "You are near the Train" displayed on the screen all the time. I think that maybe You will consider destructable train, or when the venom is secured in the train, you must construct generator to move forward. 3rd error is in objectives description, there is that allies must secure document in the train, not venom gun. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[MrLego]

It may need a track barrier for the tram on the second half to delay the allies a bit after they secure the gun in the tram - that final run seems a little too short.

Very nice update to the map.

:drink:

[FireFly]

Thanks for all the kind words...It's always exciting when you release a new map or a newer version of a map...

I have to admit that creating this beta2 version was far from easy and there were times when I wanted to drop the whole project... A good example is the rotating venom gun. Inspired by the doom3 multiplayer game I wanted the objective to be rotating AND casting a shadow. This took me 2 weeks of testing, every day getting more and more frustrating: I still remember the day when I got it figured out: Me dancing through our living room while my eldest son says: "So you finally made it work?"

Hinting was hell on this map: I wanted to keep r_speeds to a max of 25k (like all my previous maps) I'm still amazed that there's just one spot ( between the axis and the allied MG42) giving 32k... Thank god for hint brushes. :D

2nd error is when player is inside the train there is annoying tip "You are near the Train" displayed on the screen all the time.

I agree It's very annoying but it's not an error. Just like the tug in railgun and the tanks in goldrush & fueldump you will get this display on your screen, I'm afraid there's nothing I can do about this.

I think that maybe You will consider destructible train, or when the venom is secured in the train you must construct generator to move forward

I still haven't played the map yet on a server hosting the map (still to early) but if the beta2 version is still too easy for the allies I will give them hell on the final version

3rd error is in objectives description, there is that allies must secure document in the train, not venom gun.

Oops! You're absolutely right. A leftover from the beta1 version that I forgot to update...Will be fixed in the final release, thanks for spotting this....

It may need a track barrier for the tram on the second half to delay the allies a bit after they secure the gun in the tram - that final run seems a little too short

In the beta1 version axis would spawn at the flag if they owned the flag. This was a big gameplay issue in the beta1 version.In the beta2 version this is not the case: Even when they own the flag they will autospawn at their 2nd spawn.Wich will give the axis team ( hopefully) time enough to intercept the tram before it reaches the second station. If this is not the case I will add some kind of barrier on the second half offthe track for the allied team to destroy...

[Sauron|EFG]

I want to use the venom to shoot the bad guys. :P

It's a shame shooting from the tram is so buggy, that sometimes makes it annoying to escort it.
Other than that (which isn't even your fault) this is a really nice map. :D

[Shaderman]

I agree It's very annoying but it's not an error. Just like the tug in railgun and the tanks in goldrush & fueldump you will get this display on your screen, I'm afraid there's nothing I can do about this.
Just a thought. Shouldn't it work if you setstate invisible the TOI when someone is in the train and setting it back with setstate default when noeone is inside?

[FireFly]

I want to use the venom to shoot the bad guys.

Nah,Bad idea: Instead of "panzerpussy" they will say:"hey venompussy, use a real gun instead"

It's a shame shooting from the tram is so buggy, that sometimes makes it annoying to escort it.

I agree,the railgun tug has the same issues, my tip is: once you're inside of the tram go prone...

...this is a really nice map.

You just earned some koekjes....

[FireFly]

Just a thought. Shouldn't it work if you setstate invisible the TOI when someone is in the train and setting it back with setstate default when noeone is inside?

Yes , this would be possible by scripting. The only problem would be once the TOI is invisible, the tram icon on the command map would also invisible. In this map the tram is a very important objective, so players need to see where the tram is on their command map....

[Detoeni]

Have a misc_commarker(thinggy) attached to a tag way above the tram for the icon and the TOI for the message at ground level.

Screen shots look very nice, not had a chance to look at the map just yet.

[TheTrooper]

Next annoying thing is voice announce "we lose the ground" :banana: . :D When 2 teams (14 vs 14 players )fight for the flag :bump: all you can hear in the game is this announce. Next thing is doubled pop-up announce that allies stole cannom. One is with venom icon, secound is with exclamation mark. One popup announce is enough. :banana:

I have this map in my 1'st custom campaign:
18net|Public[ETPro] - 212.182.75.17:27960

[Shazam]

Wonderfull !
Installed on Yep Force : 193.27.10.26:27960 --- Irc: #YEP.ET

& french news on : http://www.enemyterritory-fr.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1488

[Salteh]

Cool map, played it today :D

Playing allies, I noticed it didn't automatically set spawn to central area, after capturing that(?) :)

[fattakin]

This does look great, i was a big fan of the first one .. hopefully when this goes final it will get accepted on loads of servers.
ET always needs nice new custom maps in rotation!

[Shaderman]

ET always needs nice new custom maps in rotation!
And players willing to play them ;)

[stebbi67]

Looks good. I have changed the tramfight beta1 to tramfight beta2 in my campaign.

Keep up with good work :drink:

[FireFly]

Have a misc_commarker(thinggy) attached to a tag way above the tram for the icon and the TOI for the message at ground level.

Instead of a misc_commandmap_marker, I added another trigger_objective_info. So now the tram has 2 toi's : one high above the tram that I use for displaying the tram-icon on the command map during the whole game. And one on ground level , not containing a tram_icon only used for the "you are near the tram"-message. When a player is inside the tram the lower Toi will be invisible, with the setstate command... Works perfectly.. Thanks Detoeni and shaderman for pointing me in the right direction.

Next annoying thing is voice announce "we lose the ground" . When 2 teams (14 vs 14 players )fight for the flag all you can hear in the game is this announce. Next thing is doubled pop-up announce that allies stole cannom. One is with venom icon, secound is with exclamation mark. One popup announce is enough.

Good point. I can image that it would annoy players hearing constantly the voice-over whenever the flag is captured or lost. I'll get rid of the Vo in the final release and perhaps replace it with a more subtle sound ( for example the sound of a flag getting raised)

I checked the script and the double pop-up is a scripting error. Same thing happens when axis returns the objective... It's fixed now, thanks for mentioning this..

I also fixed another scripting error: whenever the venom gun is stolen you still get the "you are near the venom cannon"-message inside the church untill the gun is either returned or secured at the tram.

Playing allies, I noticed it didn't automatically set spawn to central area, after capturing that(?)

That's correct: In the beta1 version players would autospawn at the flag, but this caused some gameplay issues: Allot of times the whole allied team would spawn at the flag while the tram was still near their first spawn.

However, in the recent beta2 version, the tram can nolonger be escorted back by the axis team towards the first station once it's at the old castle. So it wouldn't hurt to have the allies autospawn at the flag only when they own the flag And the tram is at the old castle...

[fattakin]

Played a great friendly on this last night, my only advice would be a few signs pointing the rough direction i.e. generator as i got lost very easy.
But loved the map and gameplay was old school fun i thought!

[Salteh]

Yes, last night was awesome! :)

[eRRoLfLyNN]

Indeed, it was mucho fun :)

When I first ran through the map I was confused, probably mostly because I was so used to beta 1, and I thought that maybe you had made too many changes. It seemed a bit cluttered to me, but I think it was just because beta 1 was much more open.

Now I have to say, after playing our friendly with Nightwatch last night, I think this version is very well put together. The gameplay seems much more balanced (even though we didn't defend too well as we didn't have very long to learn it properly - that's our excuse anyway :P). The Axis now have a couple of stages to defend & the objectives are more interesting & playable. Plus, more of the map gets used, which is great because it's so pretty! :)

I remember people talking about maybe adding a trackswitch or something like that to stop the train in the middle, but the idea of the capturable objective (Venom) is much better. It really feels like a 3 stage attack /defence now, and I think it will only get better the more we play it.

As you say above, I think it would be nice if Allies would auto-spawn at the flag once they own it and the Tram is at the Castle. There is no real need for them to be spawning at the First Spawn after that point.

A couple of ideas I had when playing last night:

- instead of having the command post AND the generator, maybe you could link the tram speed with the command post? In our match last night the CP was more or less ignored (at least by us). Maybe if it was linked to the tram speed it would become more important to the gameplay? I also say this because I think (maybe I'm wrong as I've only played it once really) the generator is too close to the Axis spawn (middle spawn). But thinking about it you have more or less balanced that with making it dyna-only. But if it was linked to the CP and blowable by satchel it might force the defence to use a Covert & bring that class into matchplay again. The same would be true if you made the Generator blowable by satchel. An alternative might be to make the CP / Gen into one objective. Ie just build the CP and it functions as the generator as well as upping charge times etc. I just think that both those objectives are so close together (the CP and the Generator), so making it into one objective in that area might help to concentrate the play more. Doing that would make the map play faster I think. By that I mean I think it would up the pace of the map, and not that it would make the match times shorter ;). Anyway it's just an idea to think about!

The other thing I would like to see, I'll need to post a screenshot of, so I'll do that later.

Anyway congratulations on a fantastic map, I hope it really catches on. I have some demos of our match if you'd like to see them?

[Shazam]

I played too on Tramfight_b2. Lot of players say it's very hard to defend (axis), allies win everytimes (and we swap team).
May be (last) axis spawn is too far...

small bug:
- I can 'enter' in CP when I construct it. So, enginner crash into when it done.
- Near last spawn axis, last step of a stair blocks. I must jump to pass.

:banana:

[eRRoLfLyNN]

Not that hard to defend if people know the map tbh.

One other thing, coming from the Allies 2nd spawn it would be nice to be able to jump on that walkway without bein a trickjumper! Pull the terrain up there a bit would be nice. Maybe it's not possible thogh as you'd have to make he tram go up and down, but it'd be nice if Allies could jump onto that part easy, without havin to walk around to the steps.

Is there a final in the works?

This map more than deserves a final release! It's Railgun in Africa, but dare I say it, sexier!!

[FireFly]

Is there a final in the works?


Well, not at the moment: Because of recent changes at my job I'm not able to do much mapping work lately. And all the free time I have I spend on working on the 'Price of peace mod', wich I joined last september.

I still have a lot of open projects I intend to finish some day
- a final release of V1rocket
- a final release of Tramfight
- At least a alpha release of a "fun" map I started in August and is half done
- I've also started doing some mapping last august for a doom3/quake4 map ( by the time it is done probably will be a rtcw2 map)

So many ideas, so little time... :D

[eRRoLfLyNN]

Indeed, well good luck with all your projects :]

[nedd3h]

Hello FireFly, is this project still open? (hope so!)
Quite a few players have asked me.

It's available to play in Australia
202.60.73.80:27960
and available from my site (and server)
http://ned.theoldergamers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2

[da*Rogue]

It's also on GameArena ET server #7 - a CMP server set up with multiple rotations of custom maps

http://www.gamearena.com.au

[FireFly]

Nice to hear People still enjoying the Tramfight map I created and are waiting for the next release...

Well, A few weeks ago I re-started working on the next beta for 'V1Rocket' and the final version for 'Tramfight'.....

I've decided to focus on tramfight only, and continue on v1rocket once I finished the tramfight map.

Like I said right after I released the beta2 version: "If the map is still too easy for allies, I'm gonna give them hell", Well in my opinion this is the case: The map is still too easy for allies to win. In particular the second stage, where the allies have to steal the venom cannon from the church and must deliver it at the tram: I'm planning to make this a bit harder for the allies.

Currently I am re-designing some parts of the map, trying to create some more 'open' areas and adding a few more routes for the axis team. I'm also experimenting with Lod models for better fps performance..

I hope to release the final version within 1 or 2 months, hard to say, but there will be a final release for sure.... :D

[Chruker]

Don't call it final if you change that much. Make it another beta, collect the error reports and then do the final one.

[FireFly]

Very good point there Chruker,

I must agree: It wouldn't make any sense for me to release the map and call it "final' without any proper testing.... Worst case scenario is that I'll end up with a map that might contain some serious bugs, but still release it as a "final' map....

Now all I need to do is find a ET clan willing to properly test the final_tramfight map once it's finished...*coughs* hint...hint...

[kamikazee]

We ran your map on our server some time back. Great looks, quite good play. However, mostly the axis say "we can't set up a good defense here" and get pissed.
The tram never ran to the end straight away, but it allways moved forth and back untill it finally hit the end. (So it was more a matter of the difference in spawn times then a good gunfight.)

Maybe it would be more suitable to put the focus on the venom gun instead of the tram? (I know it's "tramfight", but I never really saw the venom gun returned.)

EDIT: You could try to do a series of invite-only map tests like ]UBC[ MCNite did. Ok, he probably did some tests with the ]UBC[ clan first, but it can be a start.

[Brevik]

Now all I need to do is find a ET clan willing to properly test the final_tramfight map once it's finished...*coughs* hint...hint...

I reckon NW and VPL could help you out there...

[nedd3h]

Now all I need to do is find a ET clan willing to properly test the final_tramfight map once it's finished
I could sort something for you. I host customs nights, public and private.
http://ned.theoldergamers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9

We played Tram Fight last Thursday.
The comments I got have already been mention here in this thread :)

[=SC=Beef]

hit me up www.silent-clan.com

the community would love it

[Sunny]

Hello,
will there be a "Final" one of Tramfight? I like the map, but it is a bit to easy for allies after the venom is stolen...
Sunny

[Avoc]

Very nice map! :)

I will suggest that we use it on my clans server.

[Higgins]

Uber Bump XD!

[pazur]

No final of this cool map?

[FireFly]

Hello,
will there be a "Final" one of Tramfight? I like the map, but it is a bit to easy for allies after the venom is stolen...
Sunny

Sorry for the late reply....

Well, I'm afraid you have to consider tramfight_beta2 as the final version. I simply do not have the time to make a final version.

At the moment I have my hands full finishing my etqw map that I've been working on for almost a year....

I remember that I was working on a final tramfight version a few months after releasing the beta2 , but abandoned the project in favor of working with mrfin on the vesuvius map. So you can blame mrfin for that.... :)

Anyway it's nice to hear people still enjoying the map after all this time and who knows: perhaps a tramfight kinda map for rtcw2 ?

[mrfin]

"I remember that I was working on a final tramfight version a few months after releasing the beta2 , but abandoned the project in favor of working with mrfin on the vesuvius map. So you can blame mrfin for that...."

ok my fault
time well spent imo.

:)

rtcw2 editing would/will? be nice

[Magic]

Have had this map in rotation on our server the last 2 years.
Great map - very hectic game play and lots of fun.
Haven't noticed any issues with it , did you have some new ideas for the final?

[shagileo]

Well I've noticed a small bug in the map (dunno if it was found already or if it bothers people).

Near the second Allied spawn (when spawnflag is not captured by allies that is) there are a few buildings (small narrow "street"). In one of those walls you can get in and as axis spawnkill allied players.

I'll provide you with some screenshots if necessery :wink:

EDIT: oh yeah: Great map, lots of fun !!

[TomTom7777]

Well I've noticed a small bug in the map (dunno if it was found already or if it bothers people).

Near the second Allied spawn (when spawnflag is not captured by allies that is) there are a few buildings (small narrow "street"). In one of those walls you can get in and as axis spawnkill allied players.

I'll provide you with some screenshots if necessery :wink:

...

Sounds like what Mortis has already fixed in his scriptfix for the map (http://bani.anime.net/banimod/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5932&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=c81fc6d85d33a113ac6bb562a48f9a6a)

"Fixes clipping exploit that allowed players to hide in a wall and spam their foes while unseen. "

Check to see if you are running his latest scriptfix (http://images.quakewarsterritory.com/mortis/trmfght_b2.zip) (Changes should work in most major mods and bot mods, of course for vanilla ET it probably won't)

[shagileo]

Yup that's the one. Thanks for the info, I'll contact the server admin to inform him.