Helmsdeep BETA 4 + new feature! (+Moria / Minas Tirith pics)

[G0-Gerbil]

After a rather long time, I proudly present:

Download: http://www.pcgamemods.com/14159
All screenshots: http://www.pcgamemods.com/14159/a

List of changes would be too huge, but main bits of importance are simply that I lowered memory usage so it runs in default hunkmegs (the previous betas with the crystals didn't). Took me plenty of time, but I got there in the end, and the visual difference is.... nowt.

Some sample pics:

Fort now has statue and crest:
http://www.pcgamemods.com/acore/6216/14159/b8.jpg

You can now use the roof of the fort (you get there via the Allied Field Op PP in the tower):
http://www.pcgamemods.com/acore/6216/14159/b14.jpg

Crystals!
http://www.pcgamemods.com/acore/6216/14159/b5.jpg
http://www.pcgamemods.com/acore/6216/14159/b6.jpg

And now for the new feature:
http://www.pcgamemods.com/acore/6216/14159/b10.jpg
http://www.pcgamemods.com/acore/6216/14159/b11.jpg

Yes, per-map mine-markers. None of this silly asset PK3 nonsense, with my map my mine markers are only used in this map, and won't conflict with any other map / server graphics.

Fingers crossed I've not missed anything obvious, it's been a while since I did a PK3 build :)

[Jaquboss]

remap shader?
Lol, maybe it is no problem to do skinpacks in this way too :/

[G0-Gerbil]

well, that was my first though, but you can't - you are limited to 15 (16 is the total limit, but apparently ETPro uses 1) remapshaders per map, which isn't enough to do a reskin - trust me, I tried :(

[Jaquboss]

lol , nevermind , i just wondered that FalckonET per-map camo packs were useless
EDIT: Dont look at screens ingame it looks much better ..
I love gem veins .
Go Gerbil , go on :)
Great work :drink: , finally some map which isnt overbrighted and which doesnt make me feeling that it needs foliage ..
BTW: can you make posters at axis spawn func_explosive , I shoot every poster I see ..
Edit2: for total reskin you need roughly 2*(( 6*3+1)+ACC ) , counting only one acc per player it would be 2*((6*3+1)+6)) that is 50 , :nag:
however if you want just body skin for one team it is 6 , and for both 12 :cool:

[|WND| Codename Ty]

How did you fix the hunkmegs problem? How did you lower the memory required, care to share? :)

[G0-Gerbil]

finally some map which isnt overbrighted Yes, I do get a fair amount of complaints that it's dark ;)
How did you fix the hunkmegs problem? How did you lower the memory required, care to share I'll write something up over the next few days.

[macbeth]

How did you fix the hunkmegs problem? How did you lower the memory required, care to share
I'll write something up over the next few days.

so i prefere wait than this hunkmegs problem will be fixed to put your map in mine rotation
Gerbil i have test your first version a long time ago with u on AZL server (FL and DB server) nice remembers
:notworthy:

|RaR|McBeth
http://www.et-mcbeth.com

[[DS]-=Pencil=-]

Very Nice!

Here is a mirror from RTCW-Prison: http://rtcw-prison.planet-multiplayer.de/prison/downloads.php?release_id=599

[G0-Gerbil]

so i prefere wait than this hunkmegs problem will be fixed to put your map in mine rotation
The hunkmegs problem is 'fixed'.
I put it in quotes for two reasons:
1) Someone managed to crash it on a high resolution (1280x1024) by trying to take a screenshot
2) Slick said it can still sometimes crash on SW rotation but only if his soundpack is also installed
So far I've not had a report of it crashing under normal circumstances, and indeed I played it on shitshort extreme last night with 50+ players with no problems at all.

So, while it's premature to say it's gone totally, so far it seems you have to do something non-standard to make it crash.
I will continue to lower the memory requirements for the final version, although I am a bit ??? as to what the real problem is, given:

1) I use less entities than the official map with the most
2) I use less hunkmegs than the official map with the most

Given that it's a memory issue, I guess the best thing for me to do is lower memory requirements, but from what I've seen / tested, the map is fine itself on normal / modded servers / campaign rotation.
If you wish to wait, I'll understand, the previous version did indeed cause a lot of problems, but then it used up something like 65 megs of hunkmegs, whereas this one takes up 48, which is a huge difference, and puts it under the normal config amount of memory required.

[FREAK!!!]

hm whats really intresting is for me.

how long did you need to compile?

[G0-Gerbil]

A full compile takes about an hour.

[FireFly]

I must admit that I'm very, very curious how you managed to create the custom mine-markers, without the use of any pk3 assets or using remapshaders......

[G0-Gerbil]

No, I did use remapshaders, my point earlier was you can't use them to do something like reskin the team because you only get a limited amount of 'slots', and tanks etc all take their toll.

[FireFly]

Oops, I misread your post, you were talking about using remapshaders on skins instead of mine-markers, my faulty...
Nevertheless this actually is the first map I have seen that has custom made mine-markers, without the use of any pk3 assets, nice job gerbil...

[Jaquboss]

I like this map too , as I said most of maps have tend to be overbrighted and has simple lighting , Gerbil doesnt fear using spotlights and he doesnt fear shadows
Also note that it isnt as simple map , there isnt as simple geomethry like in most maps .. Gerbil this was surely hard work , didnt it?
BTW: Cant wait for newer Minas Tirith ( looking forward for real texture layout ) and I also like in helmsdeep how the terrain is blended into nothing :D ( looks great )
however clip there is a bit , invisible wall ( maybe leave it how it is , because no obstecatle firs there IMO )
Again for those who are just looking download , much better ingame..

[G0-Gerbil]

Gerbil this was surely hard work , didnt it? Well, I started it just after the film came out, so we are looking at a few year's worth of work - granted not full-time, but still...
If it's taught me one thing, it's:

'Avoid where possible doing caves'

I did start blending all the seams etc in the caves but gave up and just did the most obvious ones - luckily there's little light on the cave roofs where the biggest texture break is :)
Given I've started laying out Moria (don't worry, haven't forgotten Minas Tirith, I'm about to start putting placeholder buildings in!), I really think Moria will be less damaged / cavey than I'd originally envisaged, I just don't have the patience to go through all that again!

In fact, while I'm at it, The very first public sneak peak at Moria :)
http://www.inludo.com/priv/moria1.jpg
http://www.inludo.com/priv/moria2.jpg
It's nothing more than a single pillar repeated, but I feel it gives a suitably 'epic' feel, even at such an early stage.

[G0-Gerbil]

Gerbil doesnt fear using spotlights and he doesnt fear shadows Personally given how ET works, I'm suprised there's not more emphasis placed on actual sneaking around. I'll continue to keep areas dark in my maps where appropriate - it strikes me as strange that someone spends time lighting their map then goes 'ambient 20' or something, not only is it unrealistic, but you reduce the accuracy of the lighting, and you can get far more cool lighting effects when the range is black->white instead of grey->white.
I've still got some rather spectacular lighting planned for Minas Tirith if I can pull it off, the likes of which you'll not have seen before (they would have made it into Helmsdeep if I could be arsed to do any more work on it other than bug fix / memory reduction).
And all hail Moria - land of no airstrikes!

[G0-Gerbil]

Here is a mirror from RTCW-Prison: http://rtcw-prison.planet-multiplayer.de/prison/downloads.php?release_id=599 Much appreciated, gracias :)

[M8DNephelim]

omfg gerb! :p

O_o

can´t wait! ;)

[Loffy]

Mapping at its best.
Gerbum quantum nescesses est = Gerbil maps, the rest tries. Old latin proverb.

[Jaquboss]

Maybe you can add some kind of storm to Moria , remmember Dynamic light with angle is your friend ;-)

[G0-Gerbil]

A storm in moria???
Anyway cheers for the compliments, much appreciated as ever - it's all very encouraging!

[CooperHawkes]

any infos about the objectives in moria yet? do allies have to throw a stone into a deep deep deep well? ;-)

btw: helmsdeep r0x0rZ! i love the crystals :-) ambient noises are brilliant
however, i didn't get a voice message, when i built the axis com post... is this intentional?

[Ifurita]

I'm suprised there's not more emphasis placed on actual sneaking around.


Sneaking around doesn't result in uber-fast games and people are apparently lightening everything so that you don't have shadows to sneak around in ;)

[G0-Gerbil]

Sneaking = fun, you can bet I'll put more sneak routes into my maps :)

any infos about the objectives in moria yet? Well... it's an Axis attack map, and I haven't worked it all out properly yet, but the idea at the moment is to get most of the way through the level to the second hall with the big pillars and then.... escort the balrog :)
This entirely depends on me finding a suitable balrog model and the kind modeller letting me use it, so don't hold your breath, but if that's the case, then it'll be that you escort him, allies can hurt him, and instead of repairing him, he'll be a mobile medic PP (IE medics lurk near by to give him health). Also, getting too near would burn ya.

Obviously you have to then try to free the little wee beasty.

I'll stop now, it's too much pure speculation though :D

[G0-Gerbil]

however, i didn't get a voice message, when i built the axis com post... is this intentional? Bugger... I stripped out too much VO. I was building my own for the map, but they didn't sound too hot so I removed them - obviously my delete key was a bit overzealos, I'll get the obvious stuff back in for the final.

[Jaquboss]

A storm in moria???
Anyway cheers for the compliments, much appreciated as ever - it's all very encouraging!
Dum , I am not big Tolkien Fan , I was thinking about mordor , i dont know how i could miss that screenshot above thought..
EDIT:
Here is "create" script for storm , however sounds and color are not working ..
I hope it will not take too much place

create
{
scriptName "lightning1"
classname "dlight"
//style "18"
origin "300 2500 0"
angles "25 25 25"
stylestring "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazzaaaaaaaaa"
color "0.99 0.01 0.01" // doesnt work , at least here :(
spawnflags "1" //FORCEACTIVE
sound "sound/world/thunder_01.wav"
}

create
{
scriptName "lightning2"
classname "dlight"
//style "18"
origin "300 2500 0"
angles "25 25 25"
stylestring "zzaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"
color "0.99 0.01 0.01" // doesnt work , at least here :(
spawnflags "1" //FORCEACTIVE
sound "sound/world/thunder_02.wav"
}

create
{
scriptName "lightning3"
classname "dlight"
//style "18"
origin "300 2500 0"
angles "25 25 25"
stylestring "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazzaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"
color "0.99 0.01 0.01" // doesnt work , at least here :(
spawnflags "1" //FORCEACTIVE
sound "sound/world/thunder_03.wav"
}

create
{
scriptName "lightning4"
classname "dlight"
//style "18"
origin "300 2500 0"
angles "25 25 25"
stylestring "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazzaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"
color "0.99 0.01 0.01" // doesnt work , at least here :(
spawnflags "1" //FORCEACTIVE
sound "sound/world/thunder_04.wav"
}

create
{
scriptName "lightning5"
classname "dlight"
//style "18"
origin "300 2500 0"
angles "25 25 25"
stylestring "aaaaaaaaaaazzaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"
color "0.99 0.01 0.01" // doesnt work , at least here :(
spawnflags "1" //FORCEACTIVE
sound "sound/world/thunder_05.wav"
}

[G0-Gerbil]

Since I'm a bump-whore, have a free pic of something else coming soon:

http://theburrow.fragland.net/maps/images/minastirith/mtfp02/lvl1court.jpg
http://theburrow.fragland.net/maps/images/minastirith/mtfp02/lvl1gate2.jpg

Naturally the texturing is about as temporary as it gets (select everything - then select a single texture!), in the same way from the FPs, but layout is much more proper, and yes you can get onto virtually all the roofs.

Once the first level is mapped out I'm going to work on proper objectives and get in some of these various new-fangled ideas I keep hinting at but never doing :D

[DWM|Commando]

i wonder what the compile time on minas tirith is, seeing on how its a gigantic map (ps looks nice with the buildings)

[G0-Gerbil]

It's erm... rather long.
For tests like this, I actually delete all of the levels above for compilation.
However, as I go up the levels I do intend to simplify / improve the VIS structure - indeed, parts of it should speed up because I am going to work on making the VIS more efficient than it currently is (it's crap right now, mostly cos there's very few buildings in the level to help block it with structural).
But! I can't give the whole map much polygon detail, because I've got so much space to cover. Areas which will see a lot of play (like hopefully the first level) will be 'ok-ish', and the rest reasonably 'barren' (barren according to my level of details, prolly not compared to many customs ;)) - the aim is to use a few very high res textures to cater for most of it.

Oh, and the lightmapping for the whole level is currently 2x, which by my maths = 4x lighting stage speed-up - this may actually rise (even lower definition) should memory requirements / compilation times force my hand.

It's actually quite interesting for me to map having to plan this far ahead - eg low polygon stuff.
In the new bits I showed above I use roughly 1200 brushes - compare this to the total of helms deep which has around 18000 (damn those caves!).
So if I can keep a level down to 2000 brushes (less as they get smaller) I shouldn't really have a problem - and I doubt I'll need that many anyway (since buildings you can't reach will be little more than a box to pad out the level).

It's all a bit of a techy challenge, but that's one of the reasons I like mapping :D

[P4nth3r]

Gerbil doesnt fear using spotlights and he doesnt fear shadows Personally given how ET works, I'm suprised there's not more emphasis placed on actual sneaking around.

I think this is because of the many tweakers that tweak the lights so badly that they can see in the dark as if it was light.
Personally I think punkbuster should act harder against these tweaks, but some people just have crappy monitors that are just very dark.
But I think light and dark are great, specialy for sneaking around.
Keep up the good work.

Greetz Way2Evil aka Panther

[G0-Gerbil]

Ah yeah I'd forgot about the variability of monitors.
It's more than that though, eg if I play during the day I have to up brightness because of the sunlight - at night I can have it way down dark.
But then I always have brightness set so that dark is dark, but I remember my clan days when that wasn't the case ;)

Bear in mind if you map without ambient or _minlight, black on a bright monitor may be grey, so the level will still be 'without detail'.
The problem with the player models is there's a hard-coded minimum lighting level for them (I think, sure I read it here somewhere), so a player in a black room would still have some detail, which is more visible to the brighteners amongst us :(

[Fusen]

ooooh shiny crystals

[DWM|Commando]

not to be buggy, but any idea on the realease of the updated minas tirith :P

[G0-Gerbil]

I'm working on it I assure you :)
I'm just about finished on all the modelling I plan to do for it - which is basically level 1 playable area (just to see what kind of detail I can get away with), but I want to focus on the scripting / objectives for the map now, and get some of that sorted before I release a new version. Ratty is also busy on the terrain, so things are progressing, but you should realise I'm the last person worth asking for a projected date - I don't think I'm met one of my own deadlines in about 2 years!

[G0-Gerbil]

Here's probably the last pic updates I'll do until I'm ready to release the FP2:

http://theburrow.fragland.net/maps/images/minastirith/mtfp02/lvl2gate1.jpg
http://theburrow.fragland.net/maps/images/minastirith/mtfp02/lvl2gate2.jpg
http://theburrow.fragland.net/maps/images/minastirith/mtfp02/lvl2gate3.jpg

I will naturally fill in the ground bits you can see the skybox through, but probably with nothing more complicated than a flat ground - after all these are areas of the map you can't get to, so I'll only worry about 'detail' of these areas once the rest of the map is fleshed out and I know how much detail I can afford in these areas.

I will say though that the first gate area looks pretty damn intimidating as you come up to it now with all the layers of buildings above / behind it :) Probably the first glimpse you guys will get of something that really offers the scale of the city for easy consumption :D

I would add, it's actually quite refreshing modelling on such non-detailled terms (buildings aren't really much more than blocks with a few supporting struts / balconies etc), so things are going pretty darned quick \o/