Splash DamageBlogBy the Power of Netvars - Brink Gets Balance Tweaks

Splash Damage Blog

By the Power of Netvars - Brink Gets Balance Tweaks

In addition to our on-going game updates for Brink, we've also been working on an initial bundle of balance tweaks based on the feedback we've had now that the game is out in the wild.

These tweaks are coming to all three versions of Brink and are being rolled out via our netvars. If netvars sound entirely foreign for you, they're part of a system we developed for Brink to allow us to tweak various aspects of the game without requiring you to download a full game update.

Let's have a look at what we've got in store, shall we?

Objectives

Hackboxes are getting a significant tweak across the board to help out attacking teams. We have drastically increased the time it takes Engineers to "de-hack", making it easier for the attackers to actually get the hack done.

In addition to the Hackbox change, we've got several other objective tweaks coming, as well. For starters, we're doubling the XP received for completing Primary Objectives in the game, so if you tackle one of them, your reward will be much greater from now on.

In addition, we've made the following map-specific adjustments:

  • Aquarium: Elevator generator construction time decreased
  • Container City: Robot health increased
  • Reactor: Terminal hack time slightly increased to balance new hacking mechanic
  • Resort: Gate hack time slightly increased to balance new hacking mechanic
  • Security Tower: Passcode return time increased
  • Security Tower: Passcode transmit time decreased

Abilities

Somewhat unsurprisingly, we've also been unable to keep our hands off Brink's player abilities. There's a single tweak coming your way here, with the Medic's Adrenaline ability now having a shorter duration, which'll make timing the ability right even more important.

When Will I Get These?

These changes are already live in the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 versions of Brink. If you're on the PC, you'll be getting the entire batch of balance changes alongside the next game update.

118 Comments

I will be honest here... I heard about it but not the details. Secondly I am surprised the source is http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php...date-on-brink/ ! And thirdly while its 'nice' to have these tweaks there are more important things at hand that need improving!
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 04:13
At least its a start.... Ive also heard, from a certain someone i wont mention in case i remember wrong, 2 new maps soon and fixes on bullet spread to name only those 2. Cant wait....
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 04:20
Thanks for the heads up, I never check out the Bethesda site. Would be nice of Bethesda and SD to just release this info here as it affects the Dedicated servers, and this is the only Official Dedi forum. @SD Why change the hack time? And not just the de-hack time. Seems counter productive. It took way to long already, now it will take at least 3 Ops to hack, when it is already difficult to get 2 Ops to do the objective. Never seen anyone ask or demand the hack time to be increased. SecTow Transmit Time was pretty fast. Now all you gotta do is get there? Now there is no time to stop someone Transmitting. Never seen anyone ask or demand that the transmit time or the return time to be adjusted. I like the return time, but not the Transmit time. I really hope you add some info on what has been nerfed/buffed in the weapon department. Or at least adjust the bars in game to reflect the weapon adjustments that have been made, if it dosnt do it automagically from the netVars. Which it dosnt seem to have changed any of them so far.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 04:22
I will be honest here... I heard about it but not the details. Secondly I am surprised the source is http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php...date-on-brink/ ! And thirdly while its 'nice' to have these tweaks there are more important things at hand that need improving!
These kind of changes only require a little bit of thought and interpreting feedback. Then it's no different than editing your post.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 04:38
It's interesting they are already live on XBox and PS3 but you have to get an actual game patch to have them go live for PC.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 05:05
Netvars are underwhelming. News source is disappointing in comparison with the previous level of communication from SD. Interesting balance changes are interesting. Not sure netvars can fix CC when that map goes south. An autonadespammer on the bot might :)
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 05:41
I have already played a couple games with said tweeks and i must say on Security Tower there is a noticeable difference in the amount of time it takes to return the package this makes for very different defense. Because it takes longer for it to be returned definitely need team communication to make sure as many people as possible are around to return the package. Also i think a few more tweeks should be made on the weapon side. For example the Carb-9 needs to get nerf'd a little. Not a GODSTORM nerf, just a slight nerf on accuracy and maybe clip size. Overall I like the tweeks made, helping the attacking teams when it comes to hackboxes is important because it was pretty difficult to get past part 1 in Reactor. Now its a little more possible, but still really tough against a competent team.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 05:54
It's hard to believe that there is time being spent to perform the above listed updates to the game balance. . .? . ! How about addressing the fundamental problems with the game that are causing people to stop playing it . . . you know, the simple stuff, like decent lasting connections, smooth frame rates, no lag infested matches . . .
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 06:00
Added time to de-hacking and doubled exp for primary objectives. Sweet!
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 06:57
I just dont understand the adrenaline lower effect duration, for example in container city I use to adrenaline boost the player that plants the bomb and that just takes like 3/4 of time it takes to plant the bomb, adrenaline is more a offensive ability so i dont get the point of reducing it, its not op at all. And i think planting bombs should be faster, whats the point of reducing lift construction time in aquarium if a lot of times you can´t even plant the bomb. But im glad that the engeneers now take longer to defuse the hack box, that will make some maps less frustating.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 07:31
A new blog entry has been added: [drupal=821]By the Power of Netvars - Brink Gets Balance Tweaks[/drupal]
In addition to our on-going game updates for Brink, we've also been working on an initial bundle of balance tweaks based on the feedback we've had now that the game is out in the wild. These tweaks are coming to all three versions of Brink and are being rolled out via our netvars. If netvars sound entirely foreign for you, they're part of a system we developed for Brink to allow us to tweak various aspects of the game without requiring you to download a full game update. Let's have a look at what we've got in store, shall we?
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 09:43
nice to see something is done... when will the next patch roll in anyways? the balance changes sound really promising and i want to try them out live on pc. also, let us know about weapon changes. i have the subjective feeling that some guns are nerfed while others got buffed. or has there been any changes to the body types? yesterday i played a bot match with a light body type character and got one shoted by a buffed drognav. and it wasnt a headshot.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 09:45
Well, obviously with little feedback from SD themselves, I guess we can't see exactly why some of this was changed. I'm with Deadwalking here - some of these changes would appear to be bad ones, at least on the surface. Maybe they've been made in response to data gathered by the stats site, rather than player feedback? I guess we'll have to wait and see how they work out. Also, what's with the PC version requiring an update for changes that are supposedly made via netvar tweaks? Is there a problem with the PC version reading netvars, a bug maybe? I don't remember any netvar discussions stating they were for console versions only, and it seems odd to have to release a patch for something that is supposedly dynamic? Confused infiltrator is confused. :infiltrator: EDIT: On a positive note, it's nice to see the hack remove time change - hopefully the change in hack time itself, won't affect the impact of that change.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 09:49
Why change the hack time? And not just the de-hack time. Seems counter productive. It took way to long already, now it will take at least 3 Ops to hack, when it is already difficult to get 2 Ops to do the objective. Never seen anyone ask or demand the hack time to be increased.
The change was based off of statistical data, not so much player feedback. We'll look at tweaking it further if later stats indicate we should. /me points at the word "slightly"
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 09:58
The change was based off of statistical data, not so much player feedback. We'll look at tweaking it further if later stats indicate we should. /me points at the word "slightly"
Sorry this does not make sense.... If the de-hack time is increased BUT...
Reactor: Terminal hack time slightly increased to balance new hacking mechanic Resort: Gate hack time slightly increased to balance new hacking mechanic
Won't these 2 changes effectively cancel each other out and make it the same as it is now?!
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 10:54
Well, its good to see those Balancing efforts! But i am really missing a slight nerf of the CARB-9 SMG, cause literally EVERYBODY runs around with that, paired with the Light Type Character. Is it possible to nerf the CARB-9 SMG slightly and to add different types of Recoil, so that a Heavy Char experiences light Recoil and a Light Type experiences larger recoil? Regards!
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 11:03
Won't these 2 changes effectively cancel each other out and make it the same as it is now?!
Only if the increase was enough to cancel the change out, which by the sounds of it it wasn't... he did point to the word slightly.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 11:05
Sorry this does not make sense.... If the de-hack time is increased BUT... Won't these 2 changes effectively cancel each other out and make it the same as it is now?!
Not exactly, cause there are more than 2 spots that can be hacked/de-hacked. AFAIK, Making the engineer de-hack slower would apply the change everywhere. That is, any primary or secondary objective on any map. So after they where happy with the game mechanic change, then they tweaked specific map spots. But remember there are more than 2 spots in the entire game for hacking/de-hack
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 11:05
Been playing with these changes for two days now I believe on PS3. One thing I don't believe that detailed were some of the defensive respawn changes. I noticed that during the first part of the bot escort on Container City, the Resistance's spawn is 30 seconds. It was 20 before right? I think hacking time should be increased on Resort, Terminal and Reactor.... to the point where the Offense only needs to fend off one Defensive push once they start hacking. Security Tower seems perfect to me. But, I'm not going to pretend as though I know what's best...I"ll keep playing with these changes and try to see if I can get my team's offense to work better. :) I hope that you guys keep up these netvar updates long after you run out of budget for new patches and dlc. Maybe if you just have one staff member who can keep an eye on clan matches, and tweaks things for a year or two.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 11:13
Why are the changes for PC not rolled out with netvars? And what does next game update mean? Next patch?
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 11:26
And when will this patch be released? Shouldn't take that long, considering that it's live on consoles already, right? Just noticed the update on Rock Paper Shotgun, saying DLC was coming this month, not neccessarily this week, so edited the post.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 11:43
Not exactly, cause there are more than 2 spots that can be hacked/de-hacked. AFAIK, Making the engineer de-hack slower would apply the change everywhere. That is, any primary or secondary objective on any map. So after they where happy with the game mechanic change, then they tweaked specific map spots. But remember there are more than 2 spots in the entire game for hacking/de-hack
Sorry for the confusion, the '2 changes' I was referring to were 1. De-hack time increase (is De-hack a funny word or what) 2. Increase in hack time. Not the 2 spots on the map. @DarkangelUK Yes you are right, I didn't read it properly, I'm still half asleep :)
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 11:43
The change was based off of statistical data, not so much player feedback. We'll look at tweaking it further if later stats indicate we should. /me points at the word "slightly"
theres a saying: never believe any statistic that u didnt falsify yourself statistics can create a false sense of objectivity, they tend to act like selffulfilling prophecies the problem with games these days imo is that player input doesnt seem to be valued anymore and it shows. so let me ask you: would u look at further tweaking if PLAYERS indicate that u should?
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 12:02
so let me ask you: would u look at further tweaking if PLAYERS indicate that u should?
Of course, statistics are just one tool. As I've said elsewhere, feedback is more important to us in comparison to statistics when it comes to tuning the weapons, for example.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 12:09
It's hard to pick up the correct changes in a forum that is full of moaning. Have you seen MMO forums? Everyone wants to have it their way for the class they play. Statistics are less biased that the moaning, especially if you are just going to make small changes. With statistics you have instant gratification. You can do a small change, and immediately start tracking the results of it. In a forum. People whine about the heavy, you fix it, the people who don't play heavy start whining. Then people whine about the light, you fix it, the people who don't play light start whining. Rinse and repeat in a never ending cycle. You don't even get the whining by the same group, you just end up waking up dormant groups. Either way, I'm sure they'll pick up the best ideas from the crud. General Improvements would probably be favored over balance changes.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 12:33
It's hard to believe that there is time being spent to perform the above listed updates to the game balance. . .? . ! How about addressing the fundamental problems with the game that are causing people to stop playing it . . . you know, the simple stuff, like decent lasting connections, smooth frame rates, no lag infested matches . . .
They're two totally different departments dude - the designer can tweak netvars, and all the stuff you mentioned is coder work (that will require a patch). It is possible (and likely) that both are being worked on. Glad to see some info on what is tweaked, but it would be nice if it was mirrored on this forum as I consider the forum where the devs post the "official" forum. If you want to talk about the workings of a specific car do you speak to the garage or the showroom?
the problem with games these days imo is that player input doesnt seem to be valued anymore and it shows. so let me ask you: would u look at further tweaking if PLAYERS indicate that u should?
Player feedback is listened to, but the individual has little influence. There will be people that moan no matter what. Chasing around after every little one is counter-productive. Only if there is large community consensus is there a need for change.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 12:40
Of course, statistics are just one tool. As I've said elsewhere, feedback is more important to us in comparison to statistics when it comes to tuning the weapons, for example.
What's your opinion on the time it takes to Plant an HE charge? I feel it takes a bit too long since you still have to defend the charge for 30+ seconds even after planting. Just curious.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 13:17
Theres stuff that all of us agree, at least i didn´t saw any post against it for example team voip, chat in the map end menu thing and other stuff.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 13:37
What's your opinion on the time it takes to Plant an HE charge? I feel it takes a bit too long since you still have to defend the charge for 30+ seconds even after planting. Just curious.
I've actually spoken about this one at conferences. Because it's got such a nice animation, it's not nearly as easy to change the time, whereas while repair interactions are boring they're far more flexible. It's an interesting fidelity vs flexibility trade-off.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 13:42
Those aren't things that are tweaked with netvars, netvars are for ingame variables such as weapon damange, disarm time, buff % etc.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 13:43
It's hard to pick up the correct changes in a forum that is full of moaning. Have you seen MMO forums? Everyone wants to have it their way for the class they play.
I'll again quote something I heard once from Raph Koster, one of the creators of Star Wars Galaxies: It's balanced if everybody is complaining equally. :stroggbanana:
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 13:49
Make the defending team spawn timer higher (5 / 10 seconds) than the attacking team.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 14:03
Make the defending team spawn timer higher (5 / 10 seconds) than the attacking team.
Yes, please. 10 seconds. I thought I must have been hallucinating when I read hack times are to be increased. It could be made so that it takes the defense ten years to de-hack, but that doesn't change the fact that 9 times out of 10 a competent team is going to be held for the full 20 minutes on a hack phase because defense has the advantage of (a) closer spawns, (b) positioning, (c) mines and turrets, (d) more buffs, and (e) extra players (because the one or more players hacking the objective can't do anything but have their hack tool out).
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 16:31
Cool. I'll try out the changes this evening.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 16:42
It's hard to believe that there is time being spent to perform the above listed updates to the game balance. . .? . ! How about addressing the fundamental problems with the game that are causing people to stop playing it . . . you know, the simple stuff, like decent lasting connections, smooth frame rates, no lag infested matches . . .
This ^ , i swear SD are like Emu's with there heads in the sand, i re-hired the game to see if the 'lag fixing patch' for the 360 had worked ... i should have known better i guess as it seems to have dont fkall :(
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 16:46
I'll again quote something I heard once from Raph Koster, one of the creators of Star Wars Galaxies: It's balanced if everybody is complaining equally. :stroggbanana:
Glad you understand this. :D :eek: :wink: :tongue: :cool: I must admit the only thing mentioned that I didn't understand was the Adrenaline change. I have rarely, if ever, used it "successfully" (in a game-changing way). /shrugs/ Not that big of a deal, though, as I have lots of other abilities to use as a Medic. :penguin:
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 16:50
This ^ , i swear SD are like Emu's with there heads in the sand, i re-hired the game to see if the 'lag fixing patch' for the 360 had worked ... i should have known better i guess as it seems to have dont fkall :(
Netvars are simple value changes in a file. Any designer can tweak those. Larger updates tend to require actual engineers to get involved generally speaking or have the potential to break the game (crash it) so they require more work and more testing. While you may not like the current issues the game has which is viable opinion to have, tuning Netvars takes nothing away from doing actual larger updates. These weren't done in place of larger changes. They were going to be done either way. It's a bad comparison.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 16:50
Glad you understand this. :D :eek: :wink: :tongue: :cool: I must admit the only thing mentioned that I didn't understand was the Adrenaline change. I have rarely, if ever, used it "successfully" (in a game-changing way). /shrugs/ Not that big of a deal, though, as I have lots of other abilities to use as a Medic. :penguin:
This was an alteration made mostly for the competitive community, the way i understand it. SD was quite surprised when the comp scene had banned it. The skill is mostly useless in pub games, but in the comp game it was long enough to allow offense to completely arm the bomb or defense to completely disarm it without being killed. There were also issues with chaining them together, to make it last 10 seconds or so, enough to run from cover and then plant/defuse while immune. While it seems an odd decision to alter something completely for comp play, the skill doesnt seem like it was intended to have much utility for pub play in the first place, requires far too much small-scale coordination.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 17:00
I've actually spoken about this one at conferences. Because it's got such a nice animation, it's not nearly as easy to change the time, whereas while repair interactions are boring they're far more flexible. It's an interesting fidelity vs flexibility trade-off.
You're right...it is a cool animation all the deet deet dut dut noises and finger waggling. I asked some guys I play with today and they are fine with the HE planting as it is. So, cool.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 17:04
I couldn't give two ****s about the animation. If changing it makes gameplay better, do it.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 17:06
I couldn't give two ****s about the animation. If changing it makes gameplay better, do it.
Seems like you could just speed it up. Might look kinda silly having a guy push 5 buttons in a half second, but it should be passable.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 17:08
I couldn't give two ****s about the animation. If changing it makes gameplay better, do it.
It's a fair comment :) Maybe the animation should have been done as multiple sequences with not-so-seamless transitions between - so the time of each sequence could be modified as required. The animation wouldn't be as nice - but I completely agree, affect on gameplay is more important than shiny-shiny. Sorry Exedore, I know that's probably an infuriating comment for a designer :) hehe
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 17:09
I wouldn't even care if they got rid of the entire thing and you just stared at the wall and had the circle meter fill up. I can't say for sure if planting faster would improve gameplay or not, but it certainly seems like it would and I hope they test it instead of just not bothering because "it has a nice animation."
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 17:10
It's a fair comment :) Maybe the animation should have been done as multiple sequences with not-so-seamless transitions between - so the time of each sequence could be modified as required. The animation wouldn't be as nice - but I completely agree, affect on gameplay is more important than shiny-shiny. Sorry Exedore, I know that's probably an infuriating comment for a designer :) hehe
As lead game designer, i imagine he would agree with you more than anything, since his job is more concerned with mechanics and concepts than anything else.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 17:12
Patch = Nice. But why consoles get all sweet stuff first? :(
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 17:47
Patch = Nice. But why consoles get all sweet stuff first? :(
Much larger community. Last i had heard, Xbox had like five times the sales that PC did.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 17:48
The problem with the hacking objectives just isn't purely the time taken to complete them or the time taken to dehack them, it's a big factor sure but another equally large factor is the map layout. On resort and Terminal the hack objectives are within quite small contained rooms, once you've lost that room while a hack was in progress and an enemy engineer get's in there you have no chance to take him out unless you are in that room, i.e. you can't take him out from a distance, no long range nade launcher knock down, no long range rifle shot, nothing that you as a player can do to slow him down when you have been pushed back. Considering the attack spawn so far away in comparison with the defense it creates quite an advantage to the dehackers, it's too easy for them to be in a position to dehack, providing you have a couple guys watching your back the success rate of dehacking would be quite high I'd imagine. The adjustment in times will help for sure but a change in map layout would help yet again and create a more fairer playing experience in my opinion, I'll draw up some an example later this weekend.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 18:15
I often wonder if Brink would benefit from a Smoke Grenade. No stun, just explodes and provides cover to push or flank.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 18:25
Increased the hack time? Really? Come on SD!!! And was the whole "netvar" thing a total lie or what? Or are netvars only for the consoles? IS THIS JUST MORE PROOF THAT SD LIED AND SAID BRINK WASN'T A CONSOLE PORT? Sure seems that way from every angle I look from. :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 18:34
IS THIS JUST MORE PROOF THAT SD LIED AND SAID BRINK WASN'T A CONSOLE PORT? Sure seems that way from every angle I look from. :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
And what angle is that? Dedicated servers. Observer mode. And lots of other stuff. Only for PC. If the 360/console community is indeed much larger than the PC community, they are just supporting the most customers, first. Simples, really.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 18:47
IS THIS JUST MORE PROOF THAT SD LIED AND SAID BRINK WASN'T A CONSOLE PORT? Sure seems that way from every angle I look from. :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
come on BMXer you, already know the answer to that, you played ETQW! Brink is not a PC game, plain and simple.. SD Sold its Soul to Console.. what are you going to do? :(
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 18:48
not to mention that the Xbox version looks like hell compared to the PC version.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 18:50
come on BMXer you, already know the answer to that, you played ETQW! Brink is not a PC game, plain and simple.. SD Sold its Soul to Console.. what are you going to do? :(
Once again, huh?? How, exactly, is it not a "PC Game". Watch any Brink.TV lately?
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 18:51
Once again, huh?? How, exactly, is it not a "PC Game". Watch any Brink.TV lately?
1) Multiple distinct abilities mapped to one key 2) Limited options for UI customisation 3) Poor implementation of ingame chat UI 4) No end-of-round chat 5) No toggle option for sprint/SMART 6) Lack of control for built-in VoIP system 7) Slightly dodgy server browser (awesome in ET:QW) This isn't a full list :(
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 18:55
Servicing the larger community a few days before the minority is proof? Radial menus are another one that gets said often, but radial menus were around before analog sticks. They are a lot more efficient than grid menus. There is no upper limit on how fast you can get with a radial menu, the more you use it the better you get. Grid menus do have an upper limit though.
1) Multiple distinct abilities mapped to one key 2) Limited options for UI customisation 3) Poor implementation of ingame chat UI 4) No end-of-round chat 5) No toggle option for sprint/SMART 6) Lack of control for built-in VoIP system 7) Slightly dodgy server browser (awesome in ET:QW) This isn't a full list :(
Designing the game to be more friendly to less experienced players does not mean its a console port. So i fail to see 1 or 5 as any evidence. 3, 4, and 6 all relate to the fact that SD wanted to allow players to avoid newer players getting insulted every game. They were too draconian about it, but those are issues on the console as well. VoiP is no longer a PC exclusive feature anyway. 2 and 7 extend to all platforms. Lack of creating unique features for the platform you like is not evidence of porting. To make a comparison, it would be like calling a person racist because they didn't open the door for you when the more obvious answer is that they don't open the door for anyone.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 18:56
Adrenaline boost only lasted 5 seconds! Too long? Really? You guys lost me. Why don't you focus on making this game MORE fun?
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 19:07
5) No toggle option for sprint/SMART
#5 has nothing to do with consoles, which can easily accommodate this feature. This is just a design choice that SD made, giving players total control of what they are doing.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 19:15
Designing the game to be more friendly to less experienced players does not mean its a console port. So i fail to see 1 or 5 as any evidence.
Nobody used the words "console port" - I'm talking about design decisions :) Having two distinct abilities mapped to a single key, and offering no way to split them out - is evidence enough of a console-first design attitude in my opinion. It's horrible, and very faulty when playing as a medic. Not only that, but there's really no need - for PC players new to an FPS - to place these abilities together, and not allow it to be changed. Customising controls has always been a major part of PC games - whatever the genre. Sure, default it to combined if you like - but provide an option for those who have no problem with separate keys for buff and revive. I still can't believe the problems caused by this decision weren't evident in QA :(
3, 4, and 6 all relate to the fact that SD wanted to allow players to avoid newer players getting insulted every game. They were too draconian about it, but those are issues on the console as well. VoiP is no longer a PC exclusive feature anyway.
Apologies - that should have read volume controls :) End of the day at work... So yeah - Brink has CVARS that control it's built-in VoIP system, which overrides Steam's voice when enabled. They're set to incorrect default values - and there are no controls ingame to change them. If a game is implementing a VoIP system, it should have these controls. I assume both the 360 and PS3 versions use the native VoIP system - therefore would rely on external volume controls. Thus my inclusion of this point :) I didn't make number 7 clear enough, slightly vague there - ET:QW was very much a PC game that was also released on console. The PC server browser was (and still is) excellent. The decision to downgrade that browser to what we have in Brink - again in my opinion - was influenced by the "all 3 platforms at launch" requirement. One version for all - driven by the lowest denominator, because nobody wants to navigate a full server browser like ET:QW's, on a controller. That's a fair point, but the problem is that this then transfers to the PC version, where there are generally no such issues with UI navigation.
This is just a design choice that SD made, giving players total control of what they are doing.
Total control? :D You can set crouch and zoom/iron sights to either toggle, or hold - why not SMART? I'll admit that's probably my worst point if I'm trying to prove the console design point - but it's hardly giving total control over anything, is it? :)
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 19:43
I like how the objects work in QW, because you can pick a place on the object to plant and you can move freely :cool: Why can't we grab the phone without going to the hackbox I thought it was wireless :mad::tongue:
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 20:18
Once again, huh?? How, exactly, is it not a "PC Game". Watch any Brink.TV lately?
o yeah, bad way to put it -- how's this - Brink is nothing more then a Console Game Ported over to PC..
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 20:31
Why can't we grab the phone without going to the hackbox I thought it was wireless :mad::tongue:
I actually like this mechanic. Given that, unlike every other objective you have to be standing in front of it to perform it, with hacking, you can go running off to a corner or behind cover. Just think of how lame it would be if you only needed to be in proximity and could whip out your hack tool at any time. Operatives could easily run somewhere else on the map slightly in range, completely ignoring the objective and defense altogether and just pop out their hack tool to win. Instead, they have to work with their team to get close enough to sync up with the hackbox, and then start/continue the job. As for the other changes... not sure why hack time was increased, even "slightly," but I have yet to play the changes. Significant de-hack increases, however, are very, very welcome. I don't really mind the decreased time getting the passcode delivered on Sec Tower since getting through that final room with a competent D is insanely difficult given the Sec spawn proximity. Return time increase sounds good. The two missing pieces for me are spawn time adjustments and weapon tweaks, but I wouldn't be surprised if those are soon to follow. SD has consistently patched and updated the game every single week and I appreciate it. I do know they're listening even if some of these changes were made based on stats over feedback this time around.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 20:49
How about Medics self buff gets a major cooldown period. Medics are so over powered in this game its a joke. I just got done slopping the floor againts helpless fools...thats right slopping, because mopping would be a term used if I was using any effort, which I wasint because I was Medic with 2 Carb 9s. The whole damn thing in every aspect is overpowered and I notice this is what everyone is leaning to. Not everyone has 2 Carbs, but they have one and thats enough. And since this is the combo to be if you dont like getting killed and are a COD kid then these are the type of players breaking down the game and making it lame. And turrets should not take as many shots as they do to destroy them. Its not like the EMP grenade which doesn't disable them not as nearly long enough is a level 2 or 3 skill and is something which most ppl have. Turrets are starting to get jammed packed all over the damn place. A heavy grenade should wipe turrets out. I understand how 'noob tubing' can be a problem against players and Im more then then fine with that. But against turrets they should get dusted. Its not like the turret ablity has a cool down, the worst that happens is that when a turret gets destroyed the Engineer plants a new one.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 21:23
Is SD trolling the competitive scene? It took SD almost a month to make balancing changes and it ends up including incredibly terrible ideas such as making reactor offense harder? What? Please continue to further kill what is left of the competitive scene in this game. Absolutely ridiculous......
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 21:26
I really don't understand the rationale behind any of those changes. They seem entirely irrelevant to 99% of the feedback in the general and competitive forums.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 21:41
Patch = Nice. But why consoles get all sweet stuff first? :(
Cuz it's where the masses are :)
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 21:56
Wow, this is just plain depressing. You are watching your own game die right in front of you and doing nothing to change what is actually wrong with the game. Nobody cares about double xp, nobody cares about dehacking time, nobody cares about any of these fixes you've done. Fix these problems and MAYBE people will start playing brink again. Most important - spawn timers on HUD and kill out button important - HE 40->30, axis spawn time 20->30, allies spawn time 20->15 kinda important - hacking faster, planting faster / defusing slower 1st person demos (what other game doesn't have this) Those are the essentially changes that need to be made
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 22:13
I actually like this mechanic. Given that, unlike every other objective you have to be standing in front of it to perform it, with hacking, you can go running off to a corner or behind cover. Just think of how lame it would be if you only needed to be in proximity and could whip out your hack tool at any time. Operatives could easily run somewhere else on the map slightly in range, completely ignoring the objective and defense altogether and just pop out their hack tool to win.
:confused: what the hell am i seeing then, i rarely, if ever see a hacker standing right in front of a hack box.. they are to the side or hell, somewhat behind the hack as well.. and yes they are hacking, indicator bar shows it.. o crap, whats the map with the gas vents, you have to hack the consoles.. their are two of them -- once hacked a soldier plants a bomb and you get yelled at for doing so?? whatever map that is, defending and attacking i've seen plenty of coverts hacking, dam there behind the hack box, taking cover behind the pillar -- what you are saying, this shouldnt be possible??? is that the case?
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 22:14
seriously, your game is tanking and these are the slight minor adjustments you make? what do you guys do all day at work?
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 22:28
:confused: what the hell am i seeing then, i rarely, if ever see a hacker standing right in front of a hack box.. they are to the side or hell, somewhat behind the hack as well.. and yes they are hacking, indicator bar shows it.. o crap, whats the map with the gas vents, you have to hack the consoles.. their are two of them -- once hacked a soldier plants a bomb and you get yelled at for doing so?? whatever map that is, defending and attacking i've seen plenty of coverts hacking, dam there behind the hack box, taking cover behind the pillar -- what you are saying, this shouldnt be possible??? is that the case?
No he got a good point, you always need to (re)activate your hack tool at the box. I thought it would be cool when you can use the hack tool if your in range, but that brings balance issues.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 22:35
YEAH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! definitly !!! YEAAAAHHHHHH !!!! thx to listen to the players to get a better game ! ;)
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 22:45
:confused: what the hell am i seeing then, i rarely, if ever see a hacker standing right in front of a hack box.. they are to the side or hell, somewhat behind the hack as well.. and yes they are hacking, indicator bar shows it.. o crap, whats the map with the gas vents, you have to hack the consoles.. their are two of them -- once hacked a soldier plants a bomb and you get yelled at for doing so?? whatever map that is, defending and attacking i've seen plenty of coverts hacking, dam there behind the hack box, taking cover behind the pillar -- what you are saying, this shouldnt be possible??? is that the case?
What GreasedScotsman was saying was in rebuttal to Breo's comment that you should basically be able to reconnect your Hack Phone to the already planted HackBox once you are within distance that the Hack Phone could connect. Instead of having to go to the HackBox and activate your Hack Phone off the HackBox. Which I agree with GreasedScotsman you should have to actually interact with the HackBox to reconnect your Hack Phone. And Breo seems to have had a change of heart on the matter somewhat since reading GreasedScotsman's post.
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 23:37
Dedicated servers. And lots of other stuff.
Black Ops had (most of, can't really remember because I don't care about BlOps) that stuff too, what's your point? The observer mode is worse than pretty much every other game on the market at the moment, so I wouldn't even use that as a bullet point in your argument. Pretty surprised at the hacking changes and the fact the PC still doesn't have the updates; just seems so wrong on so many levels. :(
Posted on 3 June, 2011 - 23:56
great job there with the patch. i feel a bit sad about all these guys who are flaming here and who dont like the patch. sure, i would like to see carb a bit weaker and games on 8v8 totally lagfree, but im anyway happy with this patch because it shows that you guys are still working on our game. and im sure you are working on the other problems (lags for example),too.
Posted on 4 June, 2011 - 01:49
Carb has already been nerfed once recently
Posted on 4 June, 2011 - 02:43
Carb has already been nerfed once recently
It's still better than any other gun in the game, so they didn't do it right.
Posted on 4 June, 2011 - 02:45
Carb has already been nerfed once recently
Has this been documented or is that just speculation? If so, what else was changed that SD failed to tell anyone about? I personally think its crazy that SD doesn't tell everyone when/if they make these "netvar" changes. Shouldn't there be a changelog for this stuff? Has it been confirmed that the netvars even work for the PC at all? If so, why are we waiting for a patch to see these changes? I personally think SD needs to speak up about these netvars and explain what and when they change things. I get the very strong feeling SD forgot to port the netvar feature over from the Xbox360 version to the PC port.
Posted on 4 June, 2011 - 03:04
How about fixing the bugs with the game first then tweak the small details.
Posted on 4 June, 2011 - 04:24
They can do both. The Netvars allow them to fiddle with stuff pretty much instantly, so it's not like this update is taking precious time and effort away from the patching process. Sheesh.
Posted on 4 June, 2011 - 04:57
How about Medics self buff gets a major cooldown period. Medics are so over powered in this game its a joke. I just got done slopping the floor againts helpless fools...thats right slopping, because mopping would be a term used if I was using any effort, which I wasint because I was Medic with 2 Carb 9s. The whole damn thing in every aspect is overpowered and I notice this is what everyone is leaning to. Not everyone has 2 Carbs, but they have one and thats enough. And since this is the combo to be if you dont like getting killed and are a COD kid then these are the type of players breaking down the game and making it lame. And turrets should not take as many shots as they do to destroy them. Its not like the EMP grenade which doesn't disable them not as nearly long enough is a level 2 or 3 skill and is something which most ppl have. Turrets are starting to get jammed packed all over the damn place. A heavy grenade should wipe turrets out. I understand how 'noob tubing' can be a problem against players and Im more then then fine with that. But against turrets they should get dusted. Its not like the turret ablity has a cool down, the worst that happens is that when a turret gets destroyed the Engineer plants a new one.
Oh so you're back. I applaud your persisitence. I think that these tweaks are a step in the right direction but Brink still needs lots of change. If only they had released a month later.
Posted on 4 June, 2011 - 06:28
I actually like this mechanic. Given that, unlike every other objective you have to be standing in front of it to perform it, with hacking, you can go running off to a corner or behind cover. Just think of how lame it would be if you only needed to be in proximity and could whip out your hack tool at any time. Operatives could easily run somewhere else on the map slightly in range, completely ignoring the objective and defense altogether and just pop out their hack tool to win.
If you can de-hack faster than the hack, then it shouldn't be an issue. Also, the signal strengh for the hack lowers way to much, if you aren't on the same room, it's near 0% already. So you still have to control the room to successfully complete a hack objective (unless on ****ty map where you can hack behind a wall, far far away from the objective). Problem greased?:penguin:
Posted on 4 June, 2011 - 11:11
Too many cry babies in this thread acting like this will be the last update or something and that they will never get around to resolving the other issues, people need to chill out more.
Posted on 4 June, 2011 - 11:28
it annoys me how PC keeps getting everything last, why is that. and why cant it all be launched together
Posted on 4 June, 2011 - 13:27
o yeah, bad way to put it -- how's this - Brink is nothing more then a Console Game Ported over to PC..
So, are the only games that do not fit this description only available on PC? This particular game was developed simultaneously on all three platforms, by the same group of people. No port involved.
Posted on 4 June, 2011 - 13:53
it annoys me how PC keeps getting everything last, why is that. and why cant it all be launched together
Because consoles all run on the same hardware and systems. Ironing things out on PC is different.
Posted on 4 June, 2011 - 13:53
Something is a bit strange ! for example in réactor the 1rst obj is really hardcore ! so great for the time modification in the furtur patch (hack/dehack) But if you watch some match on this map in ESL even with the dont dehack rules player do the first obj maybe 1 time on 10 matchs ! so increase the time to hack on this one is a bad idea imo ! on Reactor / container city and resort we need a big map fix !! - Reactor 1rst obj is to hard for attackers (even open the upper door is a joke, need to make a big turn and 80% of the time gor to fail ! turn the panel acces to repair on the other side maybe ? open a window were light can go through ? a hole in the roof of this room ?) - Container city is spawnraping city fo the security (I see some good ideas by players) - Resort spawnkillraping for the resistance (another exit ? cause only one is really boring !) the 3 big black spot in your game
Posted on 4 June, 2011 - 15:55
Because consoles all run on the same hardware and systems. Ironing things out on PC is different.
Explain me how collecting stats on PC is different from a PC to another? It's 100% related to the game/steam code, not the hardware/OS. It might be harder to get stats on the PC (dunno why) but not because all PC are using their own configuration, imo.
Posted on 4 June, 2011 - 17:57
Once again, huh?? How, exactly, is it not a "PC Game". Watch any Brink.TV lately?
Can you also explain why I need to control the "sense of perspective" ability with buttons? :tongue:
Posted on 4 June, 2011 - 19:00
Much larger community. Last i had heard, Xbox had like five times the sales that PC did.
Not true. It's just not reported through retail. Look at the Steam numbers and compare them to Console sales (Xbox 360 and PS3). It's possible that Brink sold some additional Console units Direct2Drive, but all studies suggest that Digital Distribution is decidedly lagging Retail Distribution on Consoles.
The problem with the hacking objectives just isn't purely the time taken to complete them or the time taken to dehack them, it's a big factor sure but another equally large factor is the map layout. On resort and Terminal the hack objectives are within quite small contained rooms, once you've lost that room while a hack was in progress and an enemy engineer get's in there you have no chance to take him out unless you are in that room, i.e. you can't take him out from a distance, no long range nade launcher knock down, no long range rifle shot, nothing that you as a player can do to slow him down when you have been pushed back. Considering the attack spawn so far away in comparison with the defense it creates quite an advantage to the dehackers, it's too easy for them to be in a position to dehack, providing you have a couple guys watching your back the success rate of dehacking would be quite high I'd imagine. The adjustment in times will help for sure but a change in map layout would help yet again and create a more fairer playing experience in my opinion, I'll draw up some an example later this weekend.
This is an excellent point. In fact, a confined room benefits an Engineer De-Hacking more than it does an Operative Hacking, because Operatives have mobility and can seek alternative cover whereas Engineers are static (relatively) and must be adjacent to the objective. The question is, though, would more-open sight lines be too abusive for entrenched attackers (i.e. Barnett snipers with full Line-of-Sight as an example)? The only analogy I can provide is Security Tower when spawning as a Soldier for the Security. If you go to the upper balcony, you can overlook the HE plant site. Players are vulnerable to fire while planting, and you can easily deny all plants and accomplish a full-hold on the first objective. A combination of Grenades and Gerrund fire (or Barnett sniping) can completely dominate the plant site. This is accomplished single-handedly without even having your team's support... (i.e. I've played games where I camped up their with my team racking up the kills down below... and I've played games where my team was slain and pushed back, but I could still prevent them from planting with some judicious nades and headshots [while watching out for the rare but occasional flanking enemy]). I don't think it's a problem to have the engineer out in the open, but I do believe that the Lines-of-Sight would need to be moderated. Actually, the design on Reactor seems well-suited for limiting the Engineer De-Hack.
Posted on 4 June, 2011 - 21:02
it annoys me how PC keeps getting everything last, why is that. and why cant it all be launched together
Funny I was thinking the opposite in the beginning. The PC got the lag patch, server, etc. changes before consoles. There is a sticky on this forum from SD asking just for PC feedback lol. Console players have been asking/begging for a party lobby system from day 1 and that is the major thing holding the game back but they haven't fixed that. They can take all of these tweaks back in exchange for a true party lobby system. I'm sure most console players will take that trade.
Posted on 4 June, 2011 - 21:20
Funny I was thinking the opposite in the beginning. The PC got the lag patch, server, etc. changes before consoles. There is a sticky on this forum from SD asking just for PC feedback lol. Console players have been asking/begging for a party lobby system from day 1 and that is the major thing holding the game back but they haven't fixed that. They can take all of these tweaks back in exchange for a true party lobby system. I'm sure most console players will take that trade.
Actually you are both wrong they have shown no favoritism to any platform and only do what they are able to when they are. I really do not like how people are so emotional that they are unable to see reality. It's always an irrational distortion of what really happens. As for this thread... who is to say SD was the one to sticky the PC feedback thread. It started off as a very objective and rational thread which had lots of good information and requests. However GIB LOBBIES pl0x does not constitute a sticky. I promise you they know about it and I would even bet they are working on seeing if it is feasible and the best way to implement it right now.
Posted on 4 June, 2011 - 22:14
This is an excellent point. In fact, a confined room benefits an Engineer De-Hacking more than it does an Operative Hacking, because Operatives have mobility and can seek alternative cover whereas Engineers are static (relatively) and must be adjacent to the objective. The question is, though, would more-open sight lines be too abusive for entrenched attackers (i.e. Barnett snipers with full Line-of-Sight as an example)?
There would need to some balance I think, I've been busy with my ET mapping project to draw up a sketch of what I think the resort hack area should be like but I was thinking having the hack room on the first floor, ie the same level as the defense spawn and that balcony across the square that the attack use. The room would be semi open on the front facing walls, just a railing covering the lower half of players leaving their upper torsos and heads on show. This would allow the attack to use rifles from the previously mentioned balcony to pick of would be engineer dehackers. This would also require the defense to push out to the railings to provide covering fire for that engineer instead of the current situation where they just need to camp the small entrances to the hack room. It would also make clearing out that room a bit more easier as you can lob a few grenades up there to flush them out and obviously pick them off from that balcony. As such purely camping that indoors area wouldn't be the best solution for a defense and as such the area outside will get used to more affect. Maybe add a couple more cover spots around the attack side though where the bot escapes as it's quite open there at the moment.
Posted on 5 June, 2011 - 10:40
Okay, did something happen to the "repair speed" for the Engineer? I just played as Security attacking Shipyard, and it seemed like FOREVER trying to get that freaking crane repaired. Please tell me that some incompetent associate didn't get this into the "tweaking update" ....please.
Posted on 5 June, 2011 - 10:56
so, when the balancing tweak gonna be release ?
Posted on 5 June, 2011 - 15:37
PC Version does not work with NetVars? They will be implemented on the future?
Posted on 5 June, 2011 - 17:19
There would need to some balance I think, I've been busy with my ET mapping project to draw up a sketch of what I think the resort hack area should be like but I was thinking having the hack room on the first floor, ie the same level as the defense spawn and that balcony across the square that the attack use. The room would be semi open on the front facing walls, just a railing covering the lower half of players leaving their upper torsos and heads on show. This would allow the attack to use rifles from the previously mentioned balcony to pick of would be engineer dehackers. This would also require the defense to push out to the railings to provide covering fire for that engineer instead of the current situation where they just need to camp the small entrances to the hack room. It would also make clearing out that room a bit more easier as you can lob a few grenades up there to flush them out and obviously pick them off from that balcony. As such purely camping that indoors area wouldn't be the best solution for a defense and as such the area outside will get used to more affect. Maybe add a couple more cover spots around the attack side though where the bot escapes as it's quite open there at the moment.
What you are describing is what I would probably consider to be abusive. The balcony that the Resistance control is too long of a sight-line in my opinion. I don't think that Barnetts or snipers should be able to clearly target the objective from extreme range and with plenty of cover from return fire. I would prefer it if the Engineer De-Hack point were still exposed, but if the sight lines were more mid-range (obviously you can still use a Barnett in a mid-range engagement, but you don't have such a tremendous advantage against counter-attack given that you are more exposed and less able to exploit cover in mid-range). Do you see what I'm saying? Or do we just differ in the way that we want the gameplay to play out? The other thing is that it would be pretty tough for the Security to control the Resistance's balcony. I've tried as much as an Operative in Disguise (against a mix of bots and humans). It's tough to accomplish, even when you have the drop on them.
Posted on 5 June, 2011 - 19:51
A dehacking engineer could crouch to avoid the shots, remember I said it would only expose the upper parts of the body, there would also be pillars and such along the railing, with the correct alignment you could hide from snipers. I see what you are saying though, I don't want it to turn into a sniping fest either.
Posted on 5 June, 2011 - 20:18
So, are the only games that do not fit this description only available on PC? This particular game was developed simultaneously on all three platforms, by the same group of people. No port involved.
I guess you haven't played the PC version then. If you doubt this game is a port you need a reality check. If they had planned changing some of the features to suit the PC, they either ran out of time or just dont care. No response from the community managers regarding these issues suggests the latter is the case.
Posted on 5 June, 2011 - 20:39
I guess you haven't played the PC version then. If you doubt this game is a port you need a reality check. If they had planned changing some of the features to suit the PC, they either ran out of time or just dont care. No response from the community managers regarding these issues suggests the latter is the case.
Sadly i must agree with you. And i am a fan boy. Hopefully the UAV control is handled well. BC2 tank turret anybody?
Posted on 5 June, 2011 - 20:55
None of the weapon tweaks are live yet. The reason the consoles will sometimes get the netvars first is because bigger fixes are going into the PC version along with them, and therefore require more testing. You could always stop finding problems... :eek:
Posted on 6 June, 2011 - 10:28
bigger fixes are going into the PC version along with them
*crosses fingers* *accidentally buffs when wanting to revive* *crosses more fingers*
Posted on 6 June, 2011 - 10:47