Splash DamageBlogE3 2010 Coverage Round-up - Day 2: Brink Footage and More

Splash Damage Blog

E3 2010 Coverage Round-up - Day 2: Brink Footage and More


Day 2 of E3 was an exciting one, with all-new Brink footage being shown on IGN's Live at E3 and G4TV's E3 '10 Live. Better yet, if you missed the G4TV piece last night, it's now available online. The five minute video contains plenty of footage from Reactor, all set to the gentle sound of Brink's Game Director Paul Wedgwood being quizzed by G4TV's Kevin Pereira.

In other news, here are the latest Brink impressions and interviews from the show:

Previews

Interviews

As with yesterday's round-up, we'll be keeping this updated throughout the day. If you've spotted any other Brink E3 coverage, please let us know in the comments.

163 Comments

edit: nevermind. hit the wrong link. g4tv is where you wanna go.
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 13:56
hoping for release of unedited footage.
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 14:33
I totally agree with [URL="http://nofrag.com/2010/jun/17/34929/"]Nofrag[/URL], it looks uber slow :(
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 14:53
Looks like a heavy that is playing to me
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 15:07
here's the hd video from g4: [url]http://e3.g4tv.com/videos/46698/E3-2010-Live-Brink-Hands-On-Demo/?quality=hd[/url] yes, the enemy movement speed looks ridiculously slow. puzzling really, first you make a cool movement system that allows you to fight when doing tricks and then you set the overall movement speed so slow that it makes doing the tricks useless against anyone with decent aim. oh well, "maybe some mod will make it better".
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 15:19
There is a cool write up of Gamespot's hands on time with Brink at E3. [url]http://e3.gamespot.com/story/6266353/brink-hands-on-impressions[/url] And here's another one from Gamespy. The writer talks a bit about unlocking classes and such [url]http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/splash-damage-project-untitled/1099697p1.html[/url] So far the reaction from the gaming press is good. It's a shame it didn't get more attention (and that it's coming out next year :) ) Another thing I noticed is that people--journalists included--still don't get the idea that there is NO difference between single and multiplayer. None so far have mentioned the fact that you don't laod up multiplayer, but simply turn it on as you play.
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 15:49
Hello from E3! Enemy use of SMART is based on difficulty level. When ramped up, the AI use all the routes you can (dependent on body type). In that video, the AI is on a lower level. We've had some great hardcore shooter guys playing on 'hard' at the stand in full co-op and they agreed it's super challenging (you have to use awesome tactics to outsmart them) I was not playing skinny in that video (you can move much faster as Skinny, and wall hop etc).
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 15:58
Is it possible, albeit risky, to move through that big rotor while it's spinning?
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 16:00
Hello from E3! Enemy use of SMART is based on difficulty level. When ramped up, the AI use all the routes you can (dependent on body type). In that video, the AI is on a lower level. We've had some great hardcore shooter guys playing on 'hard' at the stand in full co-op and they agreed it's super challenging (you have to use awesome tactics to outsmart them) I was not playing skinny in that video (you can move much faster as Skinny, and wall hop etc).\
cool! (=thank god) still, the running speed of the skinniest enemies i see in the video seems really slow, and i remember reading you can't shoot while sprinting. so unless they are medium types too and the skinny non-sprinting speed is like twice that,or the easy AI doesn't run at all, the movement speed is way too slow in my opinion. speaking as a mouse and keyboard user of course. here's an awesome idea, have your testers record all their testing sessions and write down when cool stuff happens, then edit the highlights in the demos into 60fps 720p video! edit: it was very refreshing to see some skills at the [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGlyQmmvj0w#t=3m45s]end of the Portal 2 presentation[/url]
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 16:11
Nice idea, however I would prefer a proper match b/w two decent teams - with Paul's commentary.
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 16:28
Still can't wait to get my hands on it. No description can ever rival hands-on experience!
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 16:29
Nice idea, however I would prefer a proper match b/w two decent teams - with Paul's commentary.\
that too! but as a few minute hype video some time closer to the release, something in the vein of [url=http://www.pldx.com/movie/1228/The_Contenders_2/]"The Conteners 2"[/url] ([url=http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1893342]download[/url] for smoothness) would be awesome, and never done before.
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 16:54
here's an awesome idea, have your testers record all their testing sessions and write down when cool stuff happens, then edit the highlights in the demos into 60fps 720p video! edit: it was very refreshing to see some skills at the [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGlyQmmvj0w#t=3m45s"]end of the Portal 2 presentation[/URL]\
Yes! At some point you have to get past merely reiterating the basics of game design and show the maximum of what's possible for people to achieve if they buy a game. Now may be too early not just to show but to show off the game mechanics at their max or it may do just as good a job explaining the basics as these walkthroughs. That Portal 2 demo did an excellent job incorporating both ideas.
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 17:00
Here's another one for you from IGN [url]http://ps3.ign.com/articles/109/1098064p1.html[/url]
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 17:04
I was not playing skinny in that video (you can move much faster as Skinny, and wall hop etc).\
please show us ;) we are so sad about the release date !! :p we need something to not biting our nails !! :p
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 18:24
Yes! At some point you have to get past merely reiterating the basics of game design and show the maximum of what's possible for people to achieve if they buy a game. Now may be too early not just to show but to show off the game mechanics at their max or it may do just as good a job explaining the basics as these walkthroughs. That Portal 2 demo did an excellent job incorporating both ideas.\
I am not trying to be argumentative, and I agree that we need to see more of the Parkour in the game. However, I think that showing off the max of what you can do in the game is up to the competitive gamers, after the game is released. None of what you see in any of the Team Fortress 2 videos is what Valve showed us before they released the game. All those incredible clutch plays, brilliant rocket jumping, medic buff swappin' stuff is done by the gamers that play until they can pull off those moves - stuff that even the testers never thought possible. Have no fear, you will be doing things in this game that SD hasn't even imagined. :stroggtapir: As regards the speed of the game, I don't know if the game is too fast or too slow. There simply isn't enough data available for me to judge it. This does bring up a good point though. Splash Damage, please give us the options to make our own adjustments as Bungie does with Halo 3+. I understand that developers love to have control over how there game is played, but please understand that gamers are intelligent people and if good choices are made, gamers will go with the defaults, if not, gamers will find the optimal settings. Setting up an options menu giving us access to a number of variables is not programmatically intensive work. Please consider trusting the gamer and putting some power in our hands. That is what "Customs" gametypes is all about. :D
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 20:28
I would like to offer the following criticism regarding the new U.I.. It is possible that I have become used to the Objective Wheel (O.W.) from the early videos and I am having difficulty embracing the new style. Yet, to me, the iconic, minimalist, and solid, brightly colored approach doesn't suit the rest of the art style - the "hyperrealism" of the rest of the game. It seems to me to be greatly mismatched. Unfortunately, unlike most games out there, it looks like BRINK gamers are going to be spending a LOT of time looking at the O.W. Similarly, as regards in-game announcements (i.e., you just killed...., you got buffed by...), I think the info should be presented with more subtlety than it is. While the BF:BC2 interface is far from perfect, I have become accustomed to it, and find it either as informative or as transparent as it needs to be in any given situation. Also, feel free to pick a game that is widely played, and just blatantly copy the locations on the screen for presenting info. Avoid feeling you need to be all unique and different. Take advantage of established conventions, and just tweak 'em rather than reinventing the whole wheel (no pun intended). I like the color, transparency, and information presentation of the "original" HUD much better than this new one.
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 20:46
The problem with seting up the speed / gravity etc is that it can be used to "cheat" the stats, so once again we come back to the good old ****ty stat (global) stuff that is killing pc gaming since some time.
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 22:38
+1 for the first weel !
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 22:39
I agree that the wheel needs a little more transparency, I don't know why but the wheel looks like something that would pop up on an Xbawks menu.
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 22:57
What I didn`t like was...animation. And that comes from a guy who`s completely ok with ETQW in that department! Those punks were rotating really choppy all the time.
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 22:57
here it is ! [url]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdpxzl_brink-e3-2010-gameplay-video_videogames[/url]
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 23:21
So the draw back to customizations is draw back speed? That's pretty clever actually.
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 23:28
Look like very slow !!!! hope on pc it run faster than on this one !! can't imagine the heavy type !!!
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 23:32
It's the medium type running here. A can only grin when I imagine the heavy guy.
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 23:35
running ??? when does he run ????? :P (sarcastic ? no it's not my style !)
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 23:36
Everything is a bit clunky but hey, it's consoles again.
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 23:42
it's what ? CONSOLES ? what kind of stupid object it is ? like NOFRAG say : "Wash your hand after playing with a gamepad !"
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 23:43
Well if this was pc footage than I'd rather see the game released Spring 2012.
Posted on 17 June, 2010 - 23:54
Mouhahahahahahahaha !!!! :p
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 00:02
here it is ! [URL]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdpxzl_brink-e3-2010-gameplay-video_videogames[/URL]\
Nice, thx. Media edits were really annoying on this & rage.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 02:16
The guns don't bobble anymore, now they do big dips like a schooner on the Atlantic during a Perfect Storm. (From IGN vid). WTF?! By the end of the video, I was about ready to grab a railing and puke over the side. Help me, help you. HELP ME, HELP YOU! LOL
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 04:13
what i like about the new gameplay video: leveldesign character/weapon costumization new character selection menus (sometimes confusing though) what i dont like: game speed (is this pm_runspeed 128?) speech synchro ingame ui seems to slow down gameplay when selecting objectives you look in that direction wheres smart? wheres the acrobatics and stuff? wheres the speed? if this is played against easy AI (it is actually), then put a giant stamp on it! this is played against easy (slow, extremely slow) bots that will not represent the final multiplayer experience against real humans. otherwise people could rip you to shreds.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 07:27
except the ui, everything looked cool to me. Edit: That objectives wheel is really obstructive. Everything stops while you change missions, you should be able to that on the fly.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 08:06
That objectives wheel is really obstructive. Everything stops while you change missions, you should be able to that on the fly.\
I said this after the last set of videos, its like pausing the game (but the game isnt paused obviously) so i can see myself dying alot with the objective wheel on the screen. I remember rr2do2 saying they made it fullscreen rather than part of the 3d world (like on an iphone style device you hold in your hand) because of those who were playing on a standard def tv would struggle to read it. It looks alright though so far to me, hopefully they will do a long beta to tweak the important stuff
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 08:51
It looks alright though so far to me, hopefully they will do a long beta to tweak the important stuff\
I think I remember 'em saying that there won't be a beta.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 09:31
game speed (is this pm_runspeed 128?)\
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, you guys are going to want to play skinny body type...
ingame ui seems to slow down gameplay One of the things we've been demoing at E3 is that the wheel doesn't have to slow you down at all. If you want to take a long, considered think about all the objectives you can do, then find a corner to hide, and do what you see in that video. But if you want to use the wheel on the fly, you can instead just tap the button instead of hold it, the wheel won't even come up, and and you'll automatically get either a) the most important mission you can do right now for your team or b) the mission related to what you're looking at right now (i.e. if you're a medic and you see a downed teammate across a room, if you look at him and tap the objective wheel button, you'll get a mission to revive him, and meanwhile, he'll hear you say "Medic inbound!")
wheres smart? wheres the acrobatics and stuff? wheres the speed? As we've said before, Brink is not a parkour simulator, Brink is a shooter that has some parkour. The climbing you saw in that video (near the end when Paul climbs up a computer bank, then jumps to a heating duct, then runs along the heating duct and vaults over a railing and then through a window and then another window) is the kind of stuff you'll be doing if you're a medium character (as in the video). If you're a skinny, you can start doing the wallhops and the more far out combination jumps (see the Freedom of Movement video on www.brinkthegame.com for an idea of how that stuff works).
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 09:48
Standing 5m away from the command post - selecting mission - "I'm going to our commandpost!" Reminded me of [URL="http://users.kymp.net/feuer/etcomic/021.jpg"]this etpub comic[/URL]. :D Automated voicechats are a good thing but it mustn't get annoying. I like the athmosphere they convey so far. Was the revive at the end of the video a perk? The medic didn't actively revive the player but threw him a syringe so he could revive himself.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 10:13
I noticed that the enemies seemed to be all red. This was very different from the presentation in the Container videos. When I first started playing BF:BC2, I found it very frustrating that I couldn't tell the difference between friendly and enemy. Even now, often, the only way I know who is who is because the enemy doesn't have any "friendly" green class symbol above their head. If they are tagged, then they get a bright orange triangle over their head and I think their gamertag. Of course, if they are hit, the crosshair engorges. But I got used to it after a couple of hours. Perhaps that red/pink was activated by someone completing a special objective that lit up the whole team, I don't know. If the enemy is going to simply be all red, then what is the point in the absolutely stunning artwork and customization? In the words of [URL="http://thestranded.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/back-from-e3/#comment-3306"]one of my friends[/URL], "...where is all the pretty textures / colors?! Character models are almost indeterminable. Looks like a lame blend of TF2 and Halo CE!" Lots of questions. CliffyB said it well when he talked about Bulletstorm being a new I.P. and how difficult it was to get the ideas across. Sequels are infinitely easier to sell than original I.Ps. Anyway, if after all the exhausting interviewing and demoing and traveling, Splash Damage has some energy left, it would be cool if they did some more of those tech demos with proper voice over explaining what we are seeing. I want to say two more things (for now lol): The environment shown was very sparse and flat-textured (as my friend pointed out to me). Reminded me of Halo 2. I suspect the finishing artists haven't had a chance to go through it yet, or else it just didn't look up to potential because of the build (or the video quality, or the HUD intrusion). The actual level design for a game with parkour option, with the balconies, catwalks, open space, giant fan, etc. looked very exciting! It looked awesome, really.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 13:07
. If the enemy is going to simply be all red, then what is the point in the absolutely stunning artwork and customization? In the words of [URL="http://thestranded.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/back-from-e3/#comment-3306"]one of my friends[/URL], "...where is all the pretty textures / colors?! Character models are almost indeterminable. Looks like a lame blend of TF2 and Halo CE!" \
I was thinking that too.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 13:13
More things. lol While I think most if not all of the HUD is wrong, the U.I for the customization is fine, and the customization options are very, VERY cool! Also, keep the pop-up experience points, but go back to the color, font, size of the Container video. Edit (more): The big circle reticle has to go, imo. It is far too obtrusive. I understand the desire to have a completely fresh look, but I think maybe there is a reason why so many shooters use just slight variations of the same crosshairs. IMPORTANT: So much of what is bothering me may be either 1) ignorance of what is actually happening and what information is being conveyed, and or 2) unfamiliarity with the HUD. :) Edit 2 (more): The vision for the game as articulated in posts here, in the interviews, and in Paul's E3 presentations, is flawless, imo. The options for making the game enjoyable for those who can use "manual" controls, or who can't shoot the broad side of a barn, is bang on. I believe it is possible to cater to the hardcore, competitive gamer while still providing an in for the ever-noob. The art direction is also incredible, and the story is fun with the two factions being quite novel.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 13:15
I'm gonna join in the choir. Seems a little slow. I was hoping for all 3 body types to be viable options, especially since the light type won't be able to carry rifles. UI is confusing and kind of huge, the old one felt a little easier to look at. Maybe if I knew what was going on when it's being used that would help. Hopefully once you get used to it, it will only take moments to select things. Hopefully in the future we can get some videos demonstrating the different weapons and explaining the UI. It would help a lot, I'm really curious as to what we can use for mid to long range combat. I really enjoyed the vids though, can't wait to see more. As long as we get a good amount of customization I don't think there is anyway you can disappoint anyone.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 13:44
Was the revive at the end of the video a perk? The medic didn't actively revive the player but threw him a syringe so he could revive himself.\
That's the standard medic revive ability. We wanted to get rid of revive griefing, so now medics just hand out the syringe (and receive their XP right then), and the player himself decides when (and if) he'll get back up.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 14:25
nice way to stay in the fight
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 14:28
That's the standard medic revive ability. We wanted to get rid of revive griefing, so now medics just hand out the syringe (and receive their XP right then), and the player himself decides when (and if) he'll get back up.\
Clever! :thumbsup: makes you wonder why noones come up with that solution before. So, Why the delay? :)
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 14:40
pc footage ? one day ?
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 14:47
Clever! :thumbsup: makes you wonder why noones come up with that solution before.\
IIRC, it was Bezzy's idea, so that would be why... because most devs don't have mad geniuses like Aubrey working for them :)
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 14:56
Rahdo, wb. food is bland without pepper and salt. Now, about that mappage. That map looks about average for an FPS in that it's a bunch of really empty rooms and corridors. Where's that 'table' and similar clutter that can be navigated via SMART as mentioned in the interviews?
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 14:57
re:revive don't like it, the greatest thing about the revive in rtcw/et is the temporary shield it provides for the medic. it has been a great game mechanic that adds tension and depth to firefights and works brilliantly, choosing to scrap that in favor of what, the revivee being able to delay the revive? i'm guessing the thought process behind that was something like "wouldn't it be cool if you could wait for the enemy to leave the area before reviving yourself?". no, no one who knows how the revive system works and isn't an idiot will leave a body ungibbed. also, what is revive griefing?
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 15:05
Clever! :thumbsup: makes you wonder why noones come up with that solution before. \
Blizzard came up with it 5 years ago :D
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 15:23
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, you guys are going to want to play skinny body type...\
Yeah but the problem is that it looks like we'll have to play 1/3 of the game just because med & heavy body type are slow at hell and completely useless :rolleyes: Also, it looks like the level are very small, and that you are lowering down the player speed as much as possible to avoid player to cross the whole map quickly, or something like that. Do you know which FOV is used on those videos ?
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 15:29
That's the standard medic revive ability. We wanted to get rid of revive griefing, so now medics just hand out the syringe (and receive their XP right then), and the player himself decides when (and if) he'll get back up.\
I like that. I hope you can still tap out so that a medic doesn't waste a syringe on you or needlessly travels across half of the map if you do not want to be revived. It's good to see some more dev comments on the forums as well. Keep it up! :)
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 15:31
Yeah but the problem is that it looks like we'll have to play 1/3 of the game just because med & heavy body type are slow at hell and completely useless :rolleyes: \
i'm afraid of that to !
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 16:34
That's the standard medic revive ability. We wanted to get rid of revive griefing, so now medics just hand out the syringe (and receive their XP right then), and the player himself decides when (and if) he'll get back up.\
Nice idea. :) I know in etqw I would always /kill when incapacitated, because I didn't trust the tactical timing of the revive by most medics. With this new method - im more inclined to wait. :stroggbanana: Having said that, the blood splatter on screen - doesnt really allow you to see whether an operative is about to 'Iphone your asscheeks'.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 16:54
I really hope you don't keep this xp-stuff popping up for every single shot. This is something that Wolfenstein (the new one) did better. When you shoot someone and don't kill him , you'll see the total xp by shooting him pop up like 2-3 seconds after you took your last shot at him. (omg sorry I'm horribly drunken, so I don't know if my English is correct and I don't care :P )
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 17:04
also, what is revive griefing?\
When theres a co-ordinated effort to continually kill-revive-kill the same player who doesnt know how to /kill to avoid it.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 17:30
I really hope you don't keep this xp-stuff popping up for every single shot. \
I dislike it too
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 17:40
More things. lol Also, keep the pop-up experience points, but go back to the color, font, size of the Container video. [COLOR="DarkOrange"]lol I actually hate the pop-up of xp points, why can't there just be a meter or something like that instead of a constant stream of numbers?[/COLOR] The big circle reticle has to go, imo. It is far too obtrusive. I understand the desire to have a completely fresh look, but I think maybe there is a reason why so many shooters use just slight variations of the same crosshairs. [COLOR="Orange"]I find the reticle to be the best, really. To me the dot and circle seem simple and perfect[/COLOR] \
:armadillochase: Edit:
That's the standard medic revive ability. We wanted to get rid of revive griefing, so now medics just hand out the syringe (and receive their XP right then), and the player himself decides when (and if) he'll get back up.\
Pure genius.
Rahdo, wb. food is bland without pepper and salt. Now, about that mappage. That map looks about average for an FPS in that it's a bunch of really empty rooms and corridors. Where's that 'table' and similar clutter that can be navigated via SMART as mentioned in the interviews?\
I agree. Also, I know this is gonna sound crazy but would it be possible to not give any xp whatsoever when you kill a player of the opposing team unless he's near the team objective, attacking your team-mate or something else like that? In my opinion that would really bolster team and objective based play instead of kill whoring that goes on in typical shooters.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 17:50
Now, about that mappage. That map looks about average for an FPS in that it's a bunch of really empty rooms and corridors. Where's that 'table' and similar clutter that can be navigated via SMART as mentioned in the interviews? Just because you are able to traverse across objects like tables and boxes, doesn't mean every room needs to be filled with clutter...
no, no one who knows how the revive system works and isn't an idiot will leave a body ungibbed.Um, this works into the new revive mechanic as well. Do you revive yourself immediately, avoiding being gibbed or interrogated, or do you wait till the coast is clear?
Yeah but the problem is that it looks like we'll have to play 1/3 of the game just because med & heavy body type are slow at hell and completely useless Opinions...I don;t care about speed, give me guns and health. Also, the XP popping off heads is whatever. I'm played tons of Borderlands, so it really doesn't bother me. Perhaps an option to disable XP popups?
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 18:03
Just because you are able to traverse across objects like tables and boxes, doesn't mean every room needs to be filled with clutter... \
I think he meant that there should be maps with architecture that make good use of SMART, not specifically tables and chairs, instead of plain lobbies and corridors.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 18:12
Pros: -Customization (character+weapon) -Character/Weapon Appearance (very cool) -Cut Scenes (thanks for keeping em quick) -Multiple Objective Routes -Killing Class (Soldier :D) Cons: -Speed (even for a medium it seemed slooooow) -Map Environment (a bit bleak in some sections? Container city seemed much more polished) -Hip shooting (will it work or did these testers just play too much CoD? I saw some mad spread changes when non-scoped EDIT: I noticed hip shooting differs between gun types, any info?) -Ultimate Weapon? (Is every weapon combo equal or are we going to see some big op gun that everyone uses...) -Perks (Need to hear more about these and what ones you can get first and later on) -Hud (mm just seems weird, not that I couldn't get used to it) -Blood on screen (a bit less dramatic perhaps) -Minimap (Can we see some map details instead of just floating red/white dots) Other Thoughts: -
I really hope you don't keep this xp-stuff popping up for every single shot. \
This should be allowed to be toggled from the options imo. -Hud Scaling/Transparency Options Please -More SMART movement videos please, and this time during firefights. -More body type play comparisons. -How important is it to choose unlocks? IE if I have a bunch of soldier specific unlocks am I limited to just playing soldier effectively unless I have a different character? Also, in this video @ 6:01 Ed Stern says that your demo map isn't actually part of the storyline? [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99foUeO0EUw[/url] Does this mean that there will be some single scenario maps or is this just something you made for show?
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 18:25
When theres a co-ordinated effort to continually kill-revive-kill the same player who doesnt know how to /kill to avoid it.\
interesting, i've been playing revive enabled games since 2001 and i've never seen that happen, not once. is it an etqw thing? it is sad that it seems that nowadays things in games need to be designed so that they are the best they can be while preventing people from being dicks, instead of just being designed to be the best they can be from a gameplay perspective without any compromises. for example, no collisions between playermodels prevents people from using other people as dynamic parts of level geometry when doing parkour stuff, but if there were collisions, few people might stop playing the game because someone makes them "DOOR STUCK! DOOR STUCK!".
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 18:29
-How important is it to choose unlocks? IE if I have a bunch of soldier specific unlocks am I limited to just playing soldier effectively unless I have a different character?If you have a bunch of Soldier unlocks, they will only work when you play Soldier. This doesn't mean you can't play the other classes effectively, it just means you have more options when playing Soldier.
Also, in this video @ 6:01 Ed Stern says that your demo map isn't actually part of the storyline? Does this mean that there will be some single scenario maps or is this just something you made for show? Paul said it was a bonus mission you unlock when you complete the Resistance campaign.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 18:31
If you have a bunch of Soldier unlocks, they will only work when you play Soldier. This doesn't mean you can't play the other classes effectively, it just means you have more options when playing Soldier. Paul said it was a bonus mission you unlock when you complete the Resistance campaign.\
Can't be reassured until we learn more about the perks to be perfectly honest.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 18:34
interesting, i've been playing revive enabled games since 2001 and i've never seen that happen, not once. is it an etqw thing?\
I think it's a rather stupid thing that can happen in BC2. A medic can always revive you, even if you choose suicide from the limbo menu to change your class.
Can't be reassured until we learn more about the perks to be perfectly honest.\
My fear is not that classes may be less good without perks but that people may be stupid: "our team has only engineers but [URL="http://roflmania.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/mimimi.jpeg"]mimimi[/URL] I won't change my class because I got good perks for it. someone else should switch".
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 18:52
-How important is it to choose unlocks? IE if I have a bunch of soldier specific unlocks am I limited to just playing soldier effectively unless I have a different character?\
Yes, if you have specialised yourself with five soldier perks then you will only be effective at being a soldier. Playing the other classes will be like playing the game without any unlocks.
My fear is not that classes may be less good without perks but that people may be stupid: "our team has only engineers but [URL="http://roflmania.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/mimimi.jpeg"]mimimi[/URL] I won't change my class because I got good perks for it. someone else should switch".\
It will only mean that the team with the best communication and cohesion will enjoy a huge advantage. There's a lot of game theory at work here. I love it. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory[/url] Games should hire more mathematicians that have specialised in this field.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 18:55
I would really appreciate an explanation from SD as to how this won't be a serious problem. Was it not previously said that abilities could be bought and sold? And if so was this in game or out of game? Or are abilities just unsubstantial bonuses like unofficial radar etc? I mean I want to make smart decisions about how I build my character, but then if my team needs something different class wise, I don't want to feel less inclined to switch.
It will only mean that the team with the best communication and cohesion will enjoy a huge advantage. \
Random luck is not something I want to be relying on. This type of thing needs to be more flexible or it will ruin the whole goal of the team game.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 18:59
interesting, i've been playing revive enabled games since 2001 and i've never seen that happen, not once. is it an etqw thing? it is sad that it seems that nowadays things in games need to be designed so that they are the best they can be while preventing people from being dicks, instead of just being designed to be the best they can be from a gameplay perspective without any compromises. for example, no collisions between playermodels prevents people from using other people as dynamic parts of level geometry when doing parkour stuff, but if there were collisions, few people might stop playing the game because someone makes them "DOOR STUCK! DOOR STUCK!".\
Never seen it happen in ET or ETQW.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 19:09
Never seen it happen in ET or ETQW.\
On PC, of course.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 19:21
I would really appreciate an explanation from SD as to how this won't be a serious problem. \
I don't see how this will be a serious problem. Heavy specialisations can make for incredible powerful players, but come at a huge risk, if you're not willing to take that risk then just go for an all-rounder build. This principle has proved itself in countless trading card games already.
I would really appreciate an explanation from SD as to how this won't be a serious problem. Was it not previously said that abilities could be bought and sold? And if so was this in game or out of game? Or are abilities just unsubstantial bonuses like unofficial radar etc? I mean I want to make smart decisions about how I build my character, but then if my team needs something different class wise, I don't want to feel less inclined to switch.\
You have 5 slots of abilities to fill, you can only change them in between matches. As you can see from the game they can be pretty major things, like combat awareness, 3rd person objectives and shooting while incapacitated. If I recall from the other videos, you can build two (or three?) weapon sets which you can chose from in-game. Maybe the third weapon set could be granted by unlocking it through an ability, but that's just me guessing. And again, if you don't want to feel less inclined to switch, just make an all-rounder build.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 19:29
I don't see how this will be a serious problem. Heavy specialisations can make for incredible powerful players, but come at a huge risk, if you're not willing to take that risk then just go for an all-rounder build. This principle has proved itself in countless trading card games already. \
Fairly sure that SD has stated that Brink is first and foremost a shooter. All the rest of this stuff is just there to add depth and variation. I would hate to feel forced into building a cookie cut character just because it would reduce the risk of bad games when being paired with people who only played to their specialty. If I were to find one element that would ruin the game it would be just this. There is no tactics or strategy when you join a game of random people as there is no way to coordinate your team composition before hand. If anything I think you should be able to setup different ability load outs per class just to discourage any problems. Having only 5 abilities helps to make this less serious hopefully, but I still see it as being something a bit more important than a lot of other things. This is why I would like to know more about the abilities and how big their role will be in the game. So far it seems like people will want to stick with one class if they join up with class specific abilities and that will be a problem.
Posted on 18 June, 2010 - 22:54
lol I actually hate the pop-up of xp points, why can't there just be a meter or something like that instead of a constant stream of numbers? I find the reticle to be the best, really. To me the dot and circle seem simple and perfect Also, I know this is gonna sound crazy but would it be possible to not give any xp whatsoever when you kill a player of the opposing team unless he's near the team objective, attacking your team-mate or something else like that? In my opinion that would really bolster team and objective based play instead of kill whoring that goes on in typical shooters. \
Seyu, thanks for responding. Funny how we feel so differently about the pop-up xp points and the reticle. It demonstrates the difficulty of the job for the developers - pleasing everyone. :mad: As regards not awarding xp points for a non-objective based kill, that would certainly work in my favor, as I almost always die more often than I kill. However, since there will be no K/D ratio and there will be xp points for buffing and so many other non-lethal team-oriented activities, I am willing to begrudge the sharp-shooters out there some xp for killing the enemy. ;) .... You know, I am wondering if maybe this desire for so many people to see the acrobatics isn't part of an unknown desire for this game to be a 3rd person shooter, rather than a 1st person shooter. .... By the way, and somewhat OT, I still have 4 copies of the game pre-ordered. Whatever isn't exactly to my taste, I will get used to I am sure. .... Perhaps the bright yellow circle objective icons are necessary for learning to play this game, in the same way that L4D has silhouettes, and "Realism" mode has just now become fully supported by Valve. It is an embarrassment of riches, really. Every frame of the game/characters is so pretty, I don't want it obstructed/cluttered with icons.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 00:20
RE: Game speed Does the game maybe look slow because of the way it's being played, and the person playing it? Spectating a newish player in Q3 can make the game look slow, then watching someone familiar with movement can make it look fast. It'd be nice to see a video of Aubrey just traversing a map with a light body as fast as he can so we can see what its like at full pace... or ill do it if you don't have time :D
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 00:25
RE: Game speed Does the game maybe look slow because of the way it's being played, and the person playing it? Spectating a newish player in Q3 can make the game look slow, then watching someone familiar with movement can make it look fast. It'd be nice to see a video of Aubrey just traversing a map with a light body as fast as he can so we can see what its like at full pace... or ill do it if you don't have time :D\
It doesn't prevent you to have doubt, especially when the "official" answer is "go for light body type". Because it's like being forced to play 1/3rd of the game and shot slow target, which is really boring and game killing for a MP FPS.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 01:08
RE: Perks They've already said that perks won't make your character more powerful. They will simply define your character and your play style to how you like to play. So effectively someone with zero perks enabled and someone with 5 enabled could showdown and the person with no perks can still just as easily overcome the perky player.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 03:31
RE: Perks They've already said that perks won't make your character more powerful. They will simply define your character and your play style to how you like to play. So effectively someone with zero perks enabled and someone with 5 enabled could showdown and the person with no perks can still just as easily overcome the perky player.\
And before anyone says it, this doesn't make perks useless, it just makes them balanced, since a player's skill ultimately determines the outcome, not how many toys he has. Besides, if a player decides to choose perks that boost his buffs, or make him a more efficient healer, they wouldn't determine the outcome of a gunfight anyway.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 03:49
RE: Perks They've already said that perks won't make your character more powerful. They will simply define your character and your play style to how you like to play. So effectively someone with zero perks enabled and someone with 5 enabled could showdown and the person with no perks can still just as easily overcome the perky player.\
And before anyone says it, this doesn't make perks useless, it just makes them balanced, since a player's skill ultimately determines the outcome, not how many toys he has. Besides, if a player decides to choose perks that boost his buffs, or make him a more efficient healer, they wouldn't determine the outcome of a gunfight anyway.\
Oh yea because being able to insta-revive oneself doesn't add advantage... please. Maybe I am wrong but some perks seem to be a bit more than just defining your character.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 04:33
Oh yea because being able to insta-revive oneself doesn't add advantage... please. Maybe I am wrong but some perks seem to be a bit more than just defining your character.\
This is true, but they still won't make you any more hardcore in a face to face gunfight from what I've seen so far.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 05:38
I saw the GT video again, turns out I was wrong about the Objectives wheel. It doesn't pause the game and you can stuff thats going on and with being able to take on the most suitable mission just be pressing Q, it seems decent enough. ----------------- I am not too sure whether the speed of the player is alright or not, will have to wait for more gamplay videos. -------------- And yea, I still hate all those pop-ups over the players' heads.
I'm glad with anything now. A shame to see the '1 up!!1' stuff pop up over people's heads. This kind of information actually helps you in-combat which is a wrong thing. It can notify you of people through accidental actions.\
Also, this. ----------------- All the enemies in the video looked red, what's the use of customization if they're gonna look red anyway? ----------------- I don't find a problem with having builds. TF2 and Battlefield Heroes have Heavies and they work just fine+ I think the game will have perks for boosting your speed too. I am glad that the release has been pushed though. Hopefully they'll do a beta for working things out.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 05:56
Oh yea because being able to insta-revive oneself doesn't add advantage... please. Maybe I am wrong but some perks seem to be a bit more than just defining your character. Well, if I need to insta-revive, it means I was killed, which means I lost the gunfight. So although it did "give me an advantage," you ultimately helped prove my original point: "they wouldn't determine the outcome of a gunfight anyway."
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 06:08
Well, if I need to insta-revive, it means I was killed, which means I lost the gunfight. So although it did "give me an advantage," you ultimately helped prove my original point: "they wouldn't determine the outcome of a gunfight anyway." \
So I killed you the first time, but then you instantly come back up and kill me. How does that prove your point? In the end I would have lost in the long run because of your perk, considering the game isn't just about who kills the other first...
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 06:20
So I killed you the first time, but then you instantly come back up and kill me. How does that prove your point? In the end I would have lost in the long run because of your perk, considering the game isn't just about who kills the other first... lol, now you are just speculating. So you're good enough to kill me, but not kill me twice? And even without an insta-revive perk, I could have respawned, and killed you - the insta-revive just sped up the process, or a Medic could have came by and revived me with the same outcome, so know what -Medics and respawning are unbalanced? I think you are just searching for things to complain about.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 06:27
It will only mean that the team with the best communication and cohesion will enjoy a huge advantage.\
You say it like it is something positive but it just sounds wrong to me. There's only so much teamplay you can expect on a public server and ETQW required too much to be enjoyable most of the times. Hopefully the mission system and smaller teams in Brink will help people do the right thing.
Oh yea because being able to insta-revive oneself doesn't add advantage... please. Maybe I am wrong but some perks seem to be a bit more than just defining your character.\
I doubt it'll be an instant revive as that would be ridiculously imba! Basically it would be like having twice as much health. :rolleyes: From what I've seen reviving takes a moment and I guess you can still gib someone before he revives himself. I imagine it to be a bit like some of the perks in Call of Duty. You may run into the Martyrdom grenade one, two or even three times. But at the fourth time you'll know better and adapt. It's the same with that perk which allows to keep firing with the pistol when waiting for a medic.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 08:41
RE: Perks They've already said that perks won't make your character more powerful. They will simply define your character and your play style to how you like to play. So effectively someone with zero perks enabled and someone with 5 enabled could showdown and the person with no perks can still just as easily overcome the perky player.\
Didn't they talk about a perk that makes your lifemeter longer? Does that not give you a clear advantage in a gunfight? I also really dislike the idea that I have a character that is highly specialized in playing soldier just because I have nearly only soldier perks and then I join a server and everyone else on my team has a specialized soldier. Everyone will want to play soldier, and even if they change class they won't have the perks for the other classes and are therefore at a disadvantage against a more balanced team. And @ tokamak, I still don't get your comparison with trading card games. Are the card games you are referring to team games? Because when I choose to be highly specialized in BRINK, I join a server and hope to be lucky that I fit in the team because I'm only 1/8 of my team. This game will not be about me being the uber soldier, if I don't fit in my team I will be less valuable. In a card game you don't choose 1/8 of your deck (and may choose it to be heavily specialized) and then just hope that the rest 7/8 of your deck that you get randomly goes well with it. Same with the body types. I couldn't imagine playing Team Fortress 2 and having to choose my class first and then the server I play on. That would be absolutely ridiculous. I really love to adapt according to what my teammates are doing and what the enemies are doing, but it seems I am rather limited in doing so in BRINK. edit: Of course I have never played BRINK, I'm just really concerned about these things...
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 15:41
I couldn't imagine playing Team Fortress 2 and having to choose my class first and then the server I play on. That would be absolutely ridiculous. \
Totally agree !! same in ETQW !
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 15:54
I think it's a rather stupid thing that can happen in BC2. A medic can always revive you, even if you choose suicide from the limbo menu to change your class. \
so basically you can't tap out and watch what is happening from someone elses POV until the next spawn? that's a weird design choice for a team game. how does it handle choosing between respawning and waiting for a medic? i'm assuming Brink is using the same system since Rahdo said revive griefing would've been an issue.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 16:01
I agree with Inferno on this, the perks don't seem to be to balanced at all and there just the ones we know about. I only know of 3 and they all worry me. Senses that alert you when someone has you in their crossair, so now sneaking is not a viable tactic. Instant revive, Seriously? Inferno is right here, The whole argument that a medic could have revived you etc is a not a good argument anyway, 1 relies on another player helping you the other gives you a cheat to have another go at the guy that just took you down. Anything could happen to that other player, there is no gurantee that they will always revive you so to say there the same is incorrect. The whole point that if you killed me you should be able to kill me again is stupid aswell, you don't know the circumstances what if I kill you and only have 10hp left, you jump up and shoot me I die, thats fair is it? Lastly, 3rd person on objectives. The whole point is that the objective person is supposed to be vulnerable when completing it, now people will just jump out the way when under attack. These perks maybe character defining but there also game breaking.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 16:21
You are treating it as if everyone will have every one of the perks at the same time. Sure, they might best you in one situation, but you have equiped yourself to be better in another.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 16:32
I also really dislike the idea that I have a character that is highly specialized in playing soldier just because I have nearly only soldier perks and then I join a server and everyone else on my team has a specialized soldier. Everyone will want to play soldier, and even if they change class they won't have the perks for the other classes and are therefore at a disadvantage against a more balanced team..\
Well even if you end up in a server where everyone in your team has a highly specialized soldier character, I really don't think people will stick to that one soldier class only if more engineers and medics are needed in order to win. When you switch classes you still have the weapon unlocks, general perks, and most importantly, your personal skills, so I don't think that it is going to be a big disadvantage. To me, a good team has a players that are smart enough to adjust their class choices during the game if the team's class choices are not balanced. I could not see myself playing as my favorite class if there is a dire need for players with a different class. Anyways, it is rather pointless to speculate what the gameplay mechanics are going to be in the final game, if there is a problem with a class balance, it will become obvious in the beta/demo latest, probably sooner.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 16:35
lol, now you are just speculating. So you're good enough to kill me, but not kill me twice? And even without an insta-revive perk, I could have respawned, and killed you - the insta-revive just sped up the process, or a Medic could have came by and revived me with the same outcome, so know what -Medics and respawning are unbalanced? I think you are just searching for things to complain about.\
You completely miss the goal of objective based shooters apparently... and the point is that such a perk gives you a very real advantage over someone at a lower level. So what will other perks do eh? No idea how respawning or being revived by another medic make this less obvious...
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 16:42
You are treating it as if everyone will have every one of the perks at the same time. Sure, they might best you in one situation, but you have equiped yourself to be better in another.\
Not ment in a disrespectful way but I was under the impression that Brink was an FPS not an MMO. FPS games have always been about players using the same weapons available tot hem and using them in the best way possible = who ever wins = most skilled. Brink = You have this ability that trumps mine you win, No matter what I do I will always lose because your ability is better in this situation. ok I change my ability and I beat you, but now I see that someone else now has an ability I can't beat and I lose again, at no point has skill decided who has won, only chance/luck and the abilities people select. Next thing we know people will be complaining on the forums every move for 1 ability to be nerfed an another buffed just like World of Warcraft.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 16:42
You have the same things available to you, if you choose to use them. There is still skill involved, you are just choosing equip yourself better for a certain situation, there is skill in this choice as well. In the same way there was skill in the choice of which items to go for in Quake 3 as you moved around the level, and I'm pretty sure that was an FPS. You can't limit skill to just being who is a better shot. Games evolve, FPS don't _have_ to work in a specific way just because they always have done.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 16:47
You are treating it as if everyone will have every one of the perks at the same time. Sure, they might best you in one situation, but you have equiped yourself to be better in another.\
Now if 8 random players join a team and they are all equipped for specific specializations, what is stopping them from just playing those classes (in correlation to their pre-selected perks) even if they are completely useless for an objective? If someone loads in as a medic and has all their medic specific abilities, then I doubt they will want to change to a different class... so what would prevent a situation where you don't have people feeling inclined to play multiple classes when necessary? I don't think that you can rely on people building an all-around-character either.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 16:49
You have the same things available to you, if you choose to use them. There is still skill involved, you are just choosing equip yourself better for a certain situation, there is skill in this choice as well. In the same way there was skill in the choice of which items to go for in Quake 3 as you moved around the level, and I'm pretty sure that was an FPS. You can't limit skill to just being who is a better shot. Games evolve, FPS don't _have_ to work in a specific way just because they always have done.\
There is no skill involved in choosing abilities that you know will benefit you in certain situations before the match starts, thats just general knowledge, In Q3 and Quake Live the weapons and powerups that give you an advantage are in the arena, everyone can get them and to get them you have to show skill by being the best, once you get them you use them to your advanatge to control the arena. If you can't someone else gets them and tries to dominate etc. comparing them in not valid, a more valid compairson would be knowing which abilities to select in brink and knowing which weapons/powerups to go for in Q3. The difference with Q3 is that you have to execute that knowledge correctly with skill, with Brink there is none. Inferno is correct about the classes aswell, its going to create lots of problems between each objective. The whole point of a class based FPS is to provide flexbility between each objective and each game. By using this system in this way you are restricting it. Lastly I don't define skill by just shooting, movement, coordination and awarness are key as well. While games evolve there are key features that define Genres. Skill and twitch movement etc have always been high in the FPS category, Rock paper scissors gameplay and time sinks are common in MMO's not FPS. I don't know what SD are making anymore is Brink an FPS a RPG or an MMO?
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 16:53
I was not comparing them, I was merely pointing out that skill is not limited to a very specific definition.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 16:56
To me, a good team has a players that are smart enough to adjust their class choices during the game if the team's class choices are not balanced. I could not see myself playing as my favorite class if there is a dire need for players with a different class. \
That's absolutely true and that is really what I like about RCTW, W:ET, ET:QW or TF2. But in those games you don't choose any of your tools before you join a match and then just hope that it was the right choice and goes well with what your team and the enemies are doing. Imo what is even worse: what if you chose a solid set of perks and body type for one map as defender and everything is fine, and then the next map comes up or you have to change sides and play for the attacking team because of imbalance (2 people on the attacking team leave) and you really want to change your perks and bodytype because you just think it's not that useful anymore. Do you leave the server and change your character,body type or sell/buy perks? Seems logical to me, I may do it and many other people may do it, since you can't change those things during the match. But imo that's complete bull**** and I would still love to be able to change my character during the match. There would still be all the customization stuff and identification with your characters and so on, but you would be able to adapt during the match.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 16:58
I couldn't imagine playing Team Fortress 2 and having to choose my class first and then the server I play on. That would be absolutely ridiculous. \
The rest of the issues raised in this thread don't seem as potentially problematic to me as this one. Of course, it has been said (and shown multiple times in videos) that we can change class once we are in a game. However, can we change our class-specific perks at the same time? Otherwise we can shunt all of our xp into being the best soldier we can be, then get forced to play a medic because the team requires it, nullifying the majority of our spent xp. Indeed, the pressure to shift classes as needed is going to be even greater than in et:qw because of the smaller teamsize. Depending on how important the medic revives are going to be (which of course we don't know for sure yet, but can estimate), a team of 8 without a medic or two would appear to be at a massive disadvantage compared to a team of 8 with one or two medics. The same obviously applies for the other, more specific objective-oriented classes. Body-type I can understand, as shifting from a fatty to a thinny in the middle of a game seems a bit silly, but being potentially forced to play a role which you haven't spent xp in seems pretty harsh, all things considered. It would also mean there would be less impetus to focus on class-based xp progression, and more on general, non-specific progression, in order that you can play multiple classes without being essentially penalised. I don't particularly want to get to the point where I whip out my specialised soldier character and join a game to find everyone else is focusing on their optimised covops/soldier/engie and there are no medics to hit the revives :p. The chances of this are low, but its a reasonable fear in an 8vs8 game. In that situation I either have to swap to medic, which I haven't spent any points in, or more ludicrously, leave the game in order to change to my medic character and rejoin... Of course, this is all theory and will hinge mostly upon how important/powerful class-specific progression is in the real game, but I can definitely see a point where the necessary class-shifting of a pub game runs straight into the specialisation aspect of character customisation.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 17:02
I was not comparing them, I was merely pointing out that skill is not limited to a very specific definition.\
If you were not comparing them then why did you use it as an example? that does not make sense, come on.... My point about not needing skill to pick the abilities still applies. Now if you said it requires some general knowledge about the game or maybe tactics then I would be more inclined to agree but not skill.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 17:08
It was an example of another kind of skill... jeeze.
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 17:13
lol, I thought console kids were whiners, but you guys take the cake. "Brink sucks because it's not 150% based on raw, unaltered skill, and when we mean skill, we mean accuracy and response time, because 90% of our examples are based around out shooting someone..." Well, at the very least, you guys are making me laugh. Good Job Soldier!
Posted on 19 June, 2010 - 17:16